In this powerful conversation, Iranian human rights advocate Zolal Habibi shares deeply personal insights on resilience, values-based leadership, and navigating prolonged crisis. Drawing from decades of her lived experience, we explore the role of courage, sacrifice, and collective responsibility in creating change.
What does leadership look like in moments of sustained uncertainty, high pressure, and constant change?
In this episode of Leading Through Crisis, Céline Williams speaks with Iranian human rights advocate Zolal Habibi about what it means to lead with clarity, courage, and conviction, especially when the cost of staying true to your values is high.
Drawing on her personal journey and decades of connection to Iran’s evolving social and political landscape, Zolal reflects on the leadership principles that sustain individuals and movements through prolonged periods of challenge. From the importance of standing firmly in your values to the role of personal responsibility in shaping collective outcomes, this conversation explores how leaders can stay grounded when navigating complexity and uncertainty.
Zolal shares perspectives on resilience, long-term thinking, and the power of purpose, alongside reflections on the role of women in leadership, the impact of lived values versus stated ideals, and how individuals can contribute meaningfully even in the face of overwhelming circumstances.
Together, they unpack questions that resonate far beyond any one context:
This episode is a thoughtful and nuanced exploration of leadership in times of crisis, offering insights for business owners, managers, and leaders navigating change in their own organizations and lives.
—
Zolal Habibi is an Iranian human rights activist and a leading voice for justice, democracy, and women’s rights in Iran. She serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), where she works with policymakers, journalists, and international institutions to amplify the call for a free, secular, and democratic Iran.
For more than two decades, she has been a steadfast advocate for those silenced inside Iran—particularly women, youth, and political prisoners—bringing their stories to global platforms. Zolal’s commitment to this cause is deeply personal. When she was just seven years old, her father, a respected writer and political dissident, was killed by the Iranian regime in the summer of 1988; a summer marked by the massacre of 30,000 political prisoners in Iran. This tragedy shaped her life’s mission: to ensure that such crimes are neither forgotten nor repeated, and that the aspirations of the Iranian people for freedom and democracy are recognized worldwide.
Through her advocacy, media appearances, and international engagement, Zolal continues to champion the Iranian people’s struggle.
To learn more, visit maryamrajavi4change.com or connect with Zolal on Instagram (@ashrafi4ever) or LinkedIn (linkedin.com/in/zolalhabibi/).
Zolal Habibi: [00:00:00] Every one of us can make a difference. Yeah. And, we just need to value. Ourselves, value our decisions, pay the price for our decisions, and know that we have, all of us have that potential to create change in the world.
Judith: Welcome to the Leading Through Crisis podcast, brought to you by reVisionary. Exploring resilient leadership in a world of constant change. Every few weeks, Céline Williams — speaker, strategist, and trusted advisor to leaders navigating change — brings conversations that explore how to deal with the inevitable and perpetual shifts of leadership. These discussions reveal practical insights, thoughtful strategies, and stories of resilience to help you lead with clarity and calm.
Céline Williams: My guest today is Zolal Habibi, a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of Resistance [00:01:00] of Iran, and a dedicated Human Rights and women's rights advocate. Welcome Zolal.
Zolal Habibi: Thank you, Lene. It's a pleasure to be with you today and, my regards to all the viewers and listeners.
Céline Williams: I'm very excited to talk to you today. The viewers and listeners know that we always do a little bit of chat beforehand, and this was one of the most interesting ones I've had in a while, so I cannot wait to get into all of the good stuff we're gonna get into. Before we do that though, I always ask the question, the name of the podcast is Leading Through Crisis.
When you hear that phrase or that saying, what does that mean for you or what comes up for you?
Zolal Habibi: For me, what comes up is the personal experience that I've lived through really. But also what I've seen, growing up and especially in the Iranian resistance. I think that leading by, I think standing by your principles and standing by your [00:02:00] morals no matter what the price and how difficult it gets.
That has been always something that has helped us strive and continue. We have a motto in the Iranian resistance that comes from the president elect of the movement, Mrs. Maryam Rajavi, she says we can and we must. She says that we have the capability and capacity to overcome everything if we're willing to pay the price for it.
And no matter. How difficult it is. There's always a way forward, and that has been our experience, I guess, to say the least. I think what has always been very inspiring for me or what I've learned is first of all, always to be able to keep your focus. On, on the goal. And that goal for us is freedom, and that's the freedom of the Iranian people.
[00:03:00] So once you have that aim and that goal, everything comes under that, and then you're able to, you know. Clear out all the clutter and just concentrate on what is the main issue. And, that has really been able to help us keep a balance and move forward. There have been times that unfortunately, due to the circumstances due to
what we call now real politic, but the reality of the political arena. And unfortunately that a lot of times, I mean, there's a lot of hidden agendas. There's appeasement, there's, you know, and the victims are all usually the people and the resistance and whatnot. So we have been the bargaining chip at the table with the Iranian regime regime for, for decades.
And so we've seen very, very difficult times. And times that we didn't know if we were going to be able to overcome it, but we have, and we [00:04:00] have always been able to rise, you know, above and much beyond. And so I remember there was a time that, someone was telling us that. You know, we're, we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we are not sure if it's the next train coming to run over or it's the light at the end of the tunnel.
It's been quite a fight and struggle and it hasn't been easy. 120,000 people have sacrificed their lives for freedom in Iran, for just supporting resistance and we're standing by their values and their principles and not giving in. A lot of them were given that, chance the regime was, you know, told them We won't have you executed if you just do something against the movement.
And they're like, no, it's not worth it. We're not going to do that. And I think that sacrifice, that is something that has acted as a [00:05:00] guarantee. This path for a lot of us, for a lot of us, we have pre paid a grave price, and that's why we don't think short term, we think more long term and based on our values and what it is that we, I mean, we all know that this life is short.
I mean, it's not eternal. And what's going to remain is the place that we. Leave for the future generation and how do you want that story to be written? I think that's really important. That's something that guides us, but also I think that the sacrifice that the Iranian people have made, that is something that gives us a lot of, it brings responsibility in a way, but also gives us hope.
I think that growing up with that hope and that ambition to see a free Iran that has been, a game changer for me, myself, [00:06:00] I've never had the chance to actually see Iran. I was born and raised abroad. My parents came to the US before the revolutionist students, so I've never had the chance to see Iran, but I can actually say that there hasn't been a day in my life that I haven't thought about the Iranian people and their plight..
And I always thought that if I had the opportunity to grow up in a safe environment in, you know, just the basics that we sometimes take for granted. What is my responsibility toward my own people? Mm-hmm. And I think that that guides me a lot of times, but I've also had a lot of great role models, people to look up to.
And, I think that has inspired me in a lot of ways. I mentioned Mrs. Rajavi before, Maryam Rajavi. She's the president elect of the Iranian resistance. She has, she was elected as a president-elect for the interim government after the overthrow of the regime in [00:07:00] 1993 by the National Council of Resistance of Iran, which is a parliament and exile. It has about 500 members and 52% of which are women. Yeah.
Céline Williams: I just have to say I love that.
Zolal Habibi: Yeah. And the president-elect is a woman. That just shows you, the role of women. Actually, Mrs. Rajavi has created like a whole gen, not even one generation now, generations of women in leadership.
The entire leadership council of the. Like the people's majority organization of Iran are all women. And she has said that women are the force for change. And she has said this since the, you know, since the nineties and at the time that the world was speaking about, you know, Beijing this year we're celebrating Beijing plus 30, 30 years ago.
Hillary Clinton for the first time at the UN, women's, platform. She said the CSW, she said Women's rights are human rights. And at that time that [00:08:00] was, you know, something that everyone thought was really progressive and whatnot. At that time, we already had full women in leadership in all positions, so.
Really, she has been a trailblazer in this fact because she sees that women as the force for change when it comes to the situation in Iran, especially since women are suppressed systematically in Iran and there's a misogynist regime and power. So it's like a, it's like a spring, you know? There's this hidden potential and they've been suppressed so much.
So when you take that pressure off, they have so much. Capability to jump, you know, and to go, you know, far and beyond. And so they have broken a lot of glass ceilings. So fortunately I was part of a generation that I grew up with that motto with that, you know, women can do anything. And we, we saw it in front of us.
So, I [00:09:00] never felt those glass ceilings, even though they were present and they were there because I had these role models ahead of me. And I think that I've learned how to lead in crisis from what I've seen from that.
Céline Williams: Hmm.
Zolal Habibi: I think it's really important that Mrs. Rajavi, she's not just like this one individual.
She has created like this whole line of people and she keeps on saying that, you know. I'm not exception to the rule. Women have that capability and she, she believes that you won't see the emancipation of society in its entirety. Women and men, until you have women in leadership and until you, you actually address this issue that exists in society that women are suppressed and has been historically.
It's this mentality that still exists in the world. And this is something that she has really, she has gone and fought, [00:10:00] fought with. And so I think that that resilience and that leadership is what, i've learned from and through crisis.
I think that mentality has really helped, to be able to persevere and go forward.
Céline Williams: I love that she was a trailblazer. Before anyone was even recognizing that she was a trailblazer and she was making big, that to me is the absolute definition and embodiment of someone who is living their values because she's not, no offense to Hillary Clinton, she's not going out and announcing it in a way that is like she's just doing it and making it so and so.
I just wanna acknowledge that 'cause I love hearing that. That is incredible and. I imagine that anyone who is actively involved in the resistance has so [00:11:00] many stories of crisis, it's probably overwhelming. And to continue to hold a vision and move towards it and lead from what. Each of you, each individual and also as a collective feel is right.
To be able to continue to do that is incredibly powerful. And I imagine incredibly difficult sometimes. And I'm curious whether, and whether it's your story or other story, but how, how. Have you heard or how have you navigated some of that, some of that tension? Because there, look, there's tension in crisis.
We all know this crisis creates tension. What are some of the best practices?
What are the things that work for navigating [00:12:00] that?
Zolal Habibi: What really sets this movement apart, and maybe that's. The key to its survival. Fantastic. So you just have a little bit of background please. The main force in the Iranian opposition, it's called the for short. It's called the MEK or the PMOI.
It was formed 60 years ago. It's, so it's been fighting 60 years without one day of break, I guess you could say. So against both the Shahs dictatorship and then against the mullahs. And it was formed by three students, engineering students at the time. And, this September we've celebrated the 60th year.
And out of the 60 years, 40 years of this movement has been led by women. And I think we always say in, in Farsi that we say at the, you know, at the helm of this movement, if you want to explain it in two [00:13:00] adjectives, it would be, honesty and sacrifice. And that's like what we move forward with.
Céline Williams: Hmm.
Zolal Habibi: You always have to be, when it comes to any situation, be honest with yourself and the person in front of you. So, stand by your morals. Stand by your standards. Don't have double standards. Hold yourself accountable, the way you hold others accountable, but also self-sacrifice has been key. I think that you won't find anyone in this movement who's not willing to sacrifice their own life for someone else, for anyone else.
It doesn't matter who they are. That's why they're here. That's their whole being. I mean, the day I joined the movement, it was the summer of, my senior year in high school. I had just graduated. I had gotten a full scholarship. I was going to go and study ophthalmology, but the student uprisings happened in Iran and for the [00:14:00] first time after a decade, there were protests again in Iran.
And this time it was people from my generation who were coming to the streets, the generation that. They didn't see the 1979 revolution. They were born after that. They had seen nothing but this regime, but they were the ones who came to the streets and I remember thinking, what am I doing here? I'm not going to be one of those who's going to go to Iran on a plane once it's freed.
I need to be there and be, if I can be a barrier and save someone else's life. That's what I should be doing. Or I always saw myself as someone who would be on the frontline fighting this regime, not watching on television what is happening. Right.
Céline Williams: Watching other people doing it while you, yes.
Zolal Habibi: Yeah.
Céline Williams: Yep.
Zolal Habibi: And so I decided to join the Iranian resistance, and at that time [00:15:00] I really didn't think that. It would prolong so long. I mean, it's been 26 years now that I've been a member of this resistance, and I'm very proud of that. But, at that time, I never thought, to be honest, because we saw growing up, I grew up with this reality that there were teens who were being killed in Iran.
For having a pamphlet for, you know, basic, basic things, you know? And so I never thought that I would. Live to see my forties. Yeah. Or be in my forties today. And the thing is that I also saw my, my own parents. My father, he was a prominent writer and a human right activist. He, he had a very bright future ahead of him In, in DC where we lived, he had gotten his doctorates from American U and he was, you know, on this path.
He was a prominent writer and whatnot. But when the executions began in [00:16:00] Iran in 1991, he couldn't continue that life anymore. And so he dedicated his life to the situation in Iran. I remember I was about four or five years old the first time I met people who were victims of torture.
And they had all been arrested when they were in their late in their teens or in their early twenties, I saw that and I knew that was the reality. I grew up having friends who were taken to prison with their parents when they were four or five years old. And they would be taken to watch their parents be tortured as a method of psychological torture on their parents to break, to give in, you know, and they actually ended up.
Having, you know, their parents killed under torture and they still had nightmares about that when we were growing up. So I grew up seeing that and I always thought I was one of the lucky ones because I didn't have to live in those circumstances. Mm-hmm. But very early on, I learned that the regime knows no borders when it comes to its [00:17:00] executions because, my father was killed by the regime in the summer of 1988 when I was seven, and that changed my perspective on a lot of things.
Céline Williams: Mm.
Zolal Habibi: But what I learned from my dad was that it's, you have to stand for what you believe in. You can't just be a writer and, you know, write about it and actually inspire others to join the movement and fight and not be able to not pay that price yourself.
Céline Williams: Hmm.
Zolal Habibi: So you have to pay the price for your beliefs, even if it's with your life.
And then I also saw my mom, who, she was 25 when my dad died. And um, so could just imagine 25 or two. You were both so young, your mom, my brother was only three at the time, and, but she decided to join the resistance too, and [00:18:00] at that time the resistance was based in Iraq, so we went to Iraq and we were there and then the first Gulf War happened.
So it wasn't very safe for children to stay there anymore.
Céline Williams: No.
Zolal Habibi: So my mom had that. She came to this crossroad again. Like, what do you do? Do you move back to the US, you know, or do you continue this fight? And so my mom decided she, she knew that she didn't wanna take a risk on our lives. And she's like, that's just not fair to the kids.
So she sent me and my brother back to the us. So we grew up with my aunt, but she decided to stay and stand and fight. And to me, I think that my parents taught me what's important in life, not by through their words, but through their own actions. I, I am grateful to both of them and that they taught us, you know, you have to pay a price for, for your values and for your morals, and it's not going to be easy.
It's very difficult. I think for mother, that's [00:19:00] like the hardest thing to do. But it wasn't only my mom, it was, you know, hundreds of other women who made that sacrifice in their lives. And I think that in itself is one of the things that gives hope to people in Iran because they see, you know, these people who are all really the cream of the crop of Iran society who were members of this movement.
A lot of them, like over a thousand of them, are people who had studied abroad and had, you know, people who had jobs in NASA and you know, high level jobs, university professors in like Michigan State and we're not. Here and there, they left all that behind for their people. And I think that the Iranian people, unfortunately, they've had their trust betrayed so much by these dictatorships.
It's heartwarming to see that, hey, there are these people, a few thousand of them [00:20:00] who have sacrificed everything in their personal life only for your freedom it's, some of them have been in this since they were teens and now they're in their sixties, you know?
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Zolal Habibi: And that kind of dedication, that speaks for itself, and that's what gives people hope. Why do people take the risk to come to the streets in Iran? Because they have that background. Even if, because of the censorship, they might not know all the details, but it is in the mindset of society.
It has had its cultural effect in society. People know that there's a mass grave in Tehran, it's called Khavaran. Everyone knows that that summer of 1988, 30,000 were executed. Or in 1981, every square you went to, there was a public hanging. Everyone has that in their back. Facts out of their minds.
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Zolal Habibi: And that has its effect on society. And I think that [00:21:00] the only thing that there, I think one of the worst crimes perpetrated by Khomeini was betraying people's trust.
Céline Williams: Hmm.
Zolal Habibi: To regain a trust that has been broken. It's very difficult, but I think that that trust is being rebuilt with this. Sacrifice and dedication because people in iRANO, look, these people don't want anything for the, if they were after power, there were easier ways to gain power.
You don't stand and fight for 40 years, you know, with bare hands at times, just. You want power. There are easier ways to get that if they wanted that
Céline Williams: and,
Zolal Habibi: also
Céline Williams: much faster ways to get power.
Zolal Habibi: Oh, that of course. I mean, but still, I mean even if they were after power or wealth or whatever, this is not the path that you would go.
Céline Williams: No.
Zolal Habibi: So that dedication and the fact that it's not just one generation, they see that like there are [00:22:00] people in this movement, some. From the first generation. We call them the first generation. So they've been fighting since the time of the Shah. And then there are people who are right now in resistance units inside of Iran.
They're in their early twenties. And right now, unfortunately, we see some of 'em who are in prison. Like for instance, Esan Fadi, he is 20 in his early twenties. He has been sentenced to be executed and he was an elite student, in his university or, there's so many others. Bahi Ian, he's on death row with his cousin Pya.
And we also have like, for instance, people who've won the. International Olympiad for sciences and they are behind prison laws, so they're like the elite of Iran society, but they are behind prison laws only for standing by this movement and for standing for, you know, the freedom of their people. And I think that [00:23:00] it's like, gives hope, to people inside everyone that we will prevail.
Also I think that, I think the world. Was, really inspired, or it caught them also off guard a bit when they saw the uprisings in 2022 with women leading and women in, you know, center stage in Iran. But for us, that was completely logical because we have seen women in leadership for over 30 years. So that was just like.
The natural path, you know, because when you have a movement that is led by women, it's going to inspire that. And these women know that they're fearless in front of this regime. They, they have nothing to lose at the end of the day. Everyone knows that they're actually videos from some of the people who were killed in the uprisings, who left like their final messages on social media or to their families, and they said, look.
No one's going to hand us freedom in a silver platter. We [00:24:00] have to pay the price. So please allow your children to come to the streets. Please don't stop them. We can't. This is what we have now is not a life we are living. We're breathing, but this is not life. And let us overcome this regime. We have that capability to do that.
So I think that in our culture, the culture of resistance has formed. Mm-hmm. And I think the basis of that is self sacrifice. When you're not thinking of yourselves, you put everyone else before yourself, that giving, that culture of giving everything for everyone else, that is what gives you the utmost strength.
Because there's never a limit in giving. You can't set a limit to that. So you have a abundance to always give, and that gives you the power to move forward. So it's always in your own hands. Nothing can have effect on it. You know, it's a never ending [00:25:00] cycle, you know, like no matter how hard the situation is, you could, if you look at it and say like, well, what can I do to change it?
Or How can I overcome it? What do I need to give to overcome it? Never. There's nothing that can stop you. But if you're thinking well, because it's this situation and that that person has to do that, and that one has to do that for me to do something, then you're always going to be limited and you're not going to be able to strive and move forward.
Céline Williams: I am going to make an observation and you can tell me if you agree with this or if what I'm about to say is totally off base, but when you said that. You know, the, a lot of the foundation of, of what is happening and the resistance and where hope is coming from is, comes from this place of self-sacrifice and giving, right.
Generosity. Those are very, I, I, I'm gonna use odd [00:26:00] language, language, but bear with me. But those are, are characteristics that are, that are very common in women, let's put it that way. They're very feminine. Like, you know, I don't love the language, but we see that a lot that women. Women, the power that women want is community power.
It is about a collective. It's less about me over other people and more about me with other people. And as part of that, the self-sacrifice, the, the generosity, the giving. I hear what you, I heard what you said, and I'm like, of course, because you have. Women in power, in the resistance, and you have had women in power in the resistance for a long time.
And so this tracks for me as, as I'm hearing this, I'm like great example of what women in power as a collective can bring together and change and [00:27:00] elevate versus what we see in maybe more. Ma male led. So like the regime in Iran as an exam example where that isn't the case. And I'm saying that I don't know if, if that makes sense to you, but to me I'm like, these are really linked.
Zolal Habibi: It actually makes complete sense. So this is the part that gets a bit more complex, but I'll explain it anyways. So Mrs. Rajavi, she had. And the idea, you know, of the whole, I mean, I don't wanna, as you said, I don't wanna use the word feminism necessarily. Yeah. But what it, what it was is emancipation of human beings.
Both. Yes. You know, in society, both men and women, and it's a, as a necessity to move forward. We always say that there's a saying in Farsi that a knife never can never cut its own hand. If you have. [00:28:00] That mentality or that ideology that, like for instance, the Iranian regime has, it might be like too small percentage, but you still have it.
You're not gonna be able to fight it like fullheartedly, you know?
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Zolal Habibi: Because it does, it does resonate with you somewhere or whatever. But that's like the taboo that Mrs. Rajavi broke. And so she has led with that. And it has been over the years, the term used for it was like a internal revolution within the resistance.
'cause we said first we have to rid ourselves from that misogynist outlook
Céline Williams: perspective, mindset,
Zolal Habibi: outlook, perspective, mindset. Yep. This, you know, male dominance. Inside, we have to put that aside first to be able to truly bring freedom to our people.
Céline Williams: Yeah.
Zolal Habibi: And so this is a whole process, and as you said, it is [00:29:00] like the fact in our movement, you will never hear anyone like boast about themselves because it's always about actually being the last person you knowing, considering yourself to be below everyone else.
That humbleness and that, that you feel that, you know, there's so much that you can learn from others and to value the values that they have and learn from that. And to always see yourself as like the servant of everyone in this. Anyone who does anything for this movement or for the people that we run, always be thankful and grateful to all of them.
So that. Creates a whole new culture, I guess, in how you treat people, how you interact with people, how you honor them, how you, carry yourself. And one of the things that we have really overcome is like, you won't find [00:30:00] jealousy or competition in our movements.
Céline Williams: Hmm.
Zolal Habibi: That is something that I think history we'll talk about later, because right now we are so in the midst of everything that we don't really speak about it too much of.
But like of course, this is one of the things that we usually have a international Women's day conference every year. Mm-hmm. And that is the only time in the year that Mrs. Roger actually gets to talk about this aspect of. What has been that we've been overcome?
And they look forward to this conference every year to hear what is that new obstacle that this resistance has overcome. Because it's always moving. It's never. You can't stand in one place because either you're moving forward or you're moving back and there's no middle ground here.
Yep. And so just to hear that progress and how, how these women and men are interacting with each other, like for [00:31:00] instance, when you have women in leadership, what do you do for the men not to become passive? Because overnight in this movement, the positions changed In 19, about between 1991 and 1993.
All the positions in this movement changed, you know, yes. Maybe you were the boss of this segment or this department today, or the head of it, and then tomorrow a woman who was maybe five, you know, layers down below you, is now heading that movement. And then you are not, it's not that to say you, you have come.
Lower in this process or anything. In fact, you have gained so much more and you have so much more respect. Everyone has so much more respect for you because you are now helping her strive in her new position and helping her. So I mean, this whole process is like a chain [00:32:00] of, you know, reactions and I think that this is one of the beauties of this movement.
Céline Williams: Yeah.
Zolal Habibi: I know at least one or two professors who are actually teaching. But they've taken from this, movement, as you know, in, in their women's studies and whatnot, in, different universities and like Rhode Island or other places.
But, I think that this is a new phenomenon and I think that the world can really. Gain from it. And I think that that's one of the things that I think once Iran is free, not only will Iran flourish itself, but I think that that message and that example can really create major changes, not only in the region but in the world.
Yeah. I think that there are a lot of people who would be inspired by that, and they could learn from that, I think that it's a solution to a lot of the issues that we are dealing with today in society. And I know that, everywhere you speak to people in different countries [00:33:00] right now, they have come to face to face with such problems and you know, this is a prominent issue now and the fact that no one thought that maybe a group that you know, a resistance movement from the Middle East that is headed by a female, Muslim, a Muslim woman is going to have the solution to, to that problem. But the fact that that is the case, and I think that, yeah, I think that that's something that can make a, leave its footprint in, in history and it could lead a lot of, a lot in society forward. And I think that it's something that the more people learn about it, the more emancipating it can be for them, even in their per personal lives. I'm not speaking about like the greater, good right now, but like for instance, I was speaking to someone, about a week ago. And he has been supportive of this movement since, [00:34:00] you know, we've known each other since we were kids and whatnot.
Unfortunately he had a acts really bad accident in 2000, and he has overcome it completely. I mean, he was paralyzed. Now he walks, he does everything, and he's striving and going far and beyond everything. He says, you know, the one thing that kept me going was that never give in and never give up, because we had the motto we can and we must, you know, and I always thought, he said, I looked at the resistance and they made impossibles possible.
So I thought I can make the impossibles possible too. And that, so it can make an impact even in your personal life, just taking away from these, you know, experiences and, I think that's like the beauty of the movement and hopefully, the more lives you can touch and inspire people to, you know, really, I think a [00:35:00] human being's willpower is unlimited, but we just don't know how to.
Use our full potential yet. Mrs. Rajavi always tells us we're only using 2% of our potential. So she always says, you know, you guys can do so much more. So, that's what we are striving for on a daily basis and hopefully with that we can create the change and impact that's needed to bring freedom for our people.
Céline Williams: There is no part of me that imagines that that won't happen given the continued work that is being done, the commitment to the movement that is clearly in existence. And most importantly, and this is one of the things that I heard throughout everything you said, the. Being, not just talking about the values and morals that we have, not just ideating on these wonderful ideas out in the world that could potentially exist, but the actual living of and [00:36:00] embodying those values and morals in every day.
Zolal Habibi: Exactly.
Céline Williams: And that is incredible and powerful and. At the very bare minimum I hope that people hear this or watch this and really understand that from your, from your stories and from what you've shared. 'cause I think it's, to me. It's amazing what happens when we actually embody and do the things, not just talk about the things theoretically that might make a difference, which so many people in the world do and clearly you are not doing.
I wanna ask this last question. For anyone who is listening or watching, what do you hope they take away or what do you want them to keep in mind as we kind of wrap this up? It could be more than one thing to be fair as I understand I'm putting you on the spot, but is there something for you [00:37:00] that you're like this,
Zolal Habibi: I'll go back to the first thing that we probably spoke about, but I think that, move forward with your intuition and your hearts. I mean, stand as you just said. Live your values and stand by them no matter how hard or difficult the situation is. It might not be popular, it might not be, short term.
Have benefits for you. It might come with a toll or a price, but it's worth it. And never underestimate the effect that you can have and every aspect of society and life, every one of us can make a difference. Yeah. And, we just need to value. Ourselves, value our decisions, pay the price for our decisions, and know that we have, [00:38:00] all of us have that potential to create change in the world.
Céline Williams: Yeah.
Zolal Habibi: Um, and never lose sight on that. Uh, don't think that I'm just one person. It's usually those one people, that one person who takes that responsibility seriously. They can create change in the world. So every one of us has that potential. Make it strive, make it, embolden it and stand by it.
And I'm sure that you can make the impossible as possible. And as Mrs. Rajari says, we can and we must. So we will overcome. That is something that's within reach. I'd like to share just one example of what you said before. You asked me, paying the price of your values and standing by them.
One of the things that's interesting with our movement has been, as a principal, we really stand by keeping our independence.
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm. [00:39:00]
Zolal Habibi: And at times that's really difficult. And, like for instance, financial independence. We never ask any government for any kind of financial help, but we are willing to go on the street and, you know, ask individual people
Céline Williams: Yep.
Zolal Habibi: To make a donation and help this resistance. And a lot of times, I mean, in, in this. Heat of the summer and this winter cold, and it's been going on for four decades. It's not, you know, it's, it's very difficult. But, we rely on people, both Iranians and, you know, people in, different countries who have that humanitarian heart and they understand this cause and they, they, really do help us.
Be able to finance everything.
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Zolal Habibi: The [00:40:00] easier path would have been to, you know, ask some kind of a government that has some kind of, of course they have, you know, they, they have their benefits in a free Iran too. Yep. To, you know, you know, Nick work with us because we might be around's future and then that'll be to your benefit.
But we've never done that. And that's how we were able to keep our political in independence too. When it comes to Iran, we can say, yeah, the, the solution to Iran, it's not war and it's not appeasement. It's supporting the Iranian people. That is what gives us that firmness to stand our ground and not give in, be it in front of world powers, be it in front of whoever.
We're like, you know, you could kill us. You could, you know, have us eliminated, but we're not going to give in. We're not gonna give in in our fight. We're not going to give in, you could use us as bargaining chips with the Iranian regime, but we're not going to budge, you know, from where we stand.
And I think that's what has made us so powerful that everyone [00:41:00] knows that this is a movement that you can't reckon with.
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Zolal Habibi: And, um, we've unfortunately, we, and, and standing with our principals, it hasn't been easy. Unfortunately, like for instance, the base of the movement back in 2009, for instance, was attacked with, you know, the Iranian at the behest of the Iranian regime by the Iraqi forces, with tanks and everything, and they were under US protection, but the US turned away and did not protect them.
But despite being face-to-face with, you know, tanks. But the people in Ashraf at that time, the home of their resistance, they stood with empty hands, but they pushed them back. It meant people being killed. Unfortunately, 11 people died then, but we started this huge international campaign and we were able to [00:42:00] push back.
Céline Williams: Yeah.
Zolal Habibi: We had hunger strikes, in different countries for 72 days. So again, on the self-sacrifice, people, instead of retaliating against the governments for not protecting them, they sacrificed their own wellbeing, but to send that message to the international community that you can't do that, we're not going to allow you to eliminate these people that are going to stand.
And through these, I mean, this has been time and time and then again, and what happened then? Nothing. The regime feared that it was going to be overthrown. It was the 2009 uprising. And this is the only way they were able to suppress the protests in Iran because they knew that the resistance was busy trying to keep its own members.
Céline Williams: Yep.
Zolal Habibi: Alive at that time. So, I mean, time and time, and again, this has happened, but the fact that. We have set historic precedents, even in the legal [00:43:00] arena, like for instance, court cases, international court cases that have this resistance has won over the years. It has, it's been unprecedented and they've now gone down in history.
But the fact that in every court, this is something that this movement has always stood for. They're like, if you have, because the Iranian regime, we are the number one target of smear campaigns. Disinformation campaigns of the regime. It's, so, you know, you, you probably will come face to face with it because they will have you attacked for during this interview.
The thing is that, over the years we've said if you can, we're willing to go to court, any international court, if you have really some kind of a crime that you say we've. Committed, bring it to international court, we're willing to go. And every court that we have gone, we have always won because we stand by our more moral standards and our values.
And even if that means being labeled as this and that we have no problems that we'll stick, stick to that, [00:44:00] but we are going to stand our ground. And I think that has made us, stronger over the years and. Our friends have also, through this process, they've, they've become stronger too. And just understanding what the situation is, but also in their own lives or in how they carry, you know, their, their, in their own field, how they move forward because they've had the possibility to learn from these experiences too.
Céline Williams: Thank you. I appreciate you sharing that story. I, I appreciate you adding that on at the end. I think it's incredibly important and very powerful and I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to chat with me today and sharing your stories and your perspective and your insights. I know it's going to be incredibly enlightening for anyone who listens to or watches this,
So thank [00:45:00] you from the bottom of my heart for coming and sharing. I really appreciate it.
Zolal Habibi: Thank you for giving me this time and it was a pleasure to be with you and to speak with you and, I wish all the viewers and listeners all the best too. Thank you very much.
Céline Williams: Thank you.
Judith: You’ve been listening to Leading Through Crisis, hosted by Céline Williams and brought to you by reVisionary. To learn more, visit leadingthroughcrisis.ca. Connect with Céline on LinkedIn, and explore the show notes for resources and next steps. Until next time, keep leading with courage and clarity.