Giovanni Marsico is the founder of Archangel - an organization that helps changemakers scale through immersive experiences, tactical coaching, and curated community. In this episode, he shares his insights on how to be the calm and centered leader that your community desires. We talk about building strong communities, cultivating deep relationships, and the importance of innovation when things are changing rapidly.
Our guest today, Giovanni Marsico, talks about the value of clarity and precision when leading, and the importance of embracing and exploring innovation in your business or community. Giovanni discusses the importance of recognizing new opportunities that emerge during every crisis and how to be the change-maker that your community (and the world) needs you to be.
Giovanni Marsico is the founder of Archangel - an organization that helps changemakers scale through immersive experiences, tactical coaching, and curated community. In 2012 Giovanni had a dream to change the world by seeking out other mission-driven, superhero entrepreneurs who wanted to do the same. The grand vision was to start a network, community, and tribe of people like him – those who wanted to create massive impact – and provide them with the resources, funding, and connections they needed to achieve their missions. With a background in marketing and event production, and superpowers in connecting, curating, and talent scouting, he began sharing his vision with others.
Find out more about Giovanni and his work here: www.archangelacademy.com
Connect with him on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/archangelcommunity/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/giovannimarsico126/
- Welcome to Leading Through Crisis, a conversation series exploring the idea of leadership in challenging times. Hi, and welcome to the Leading Through crisis. I'm Celine Williams, and today I'm here with Giovanni Marsico, who's the founder of Ark Angel, an organization that helps changemakers scale through immersive experiences, tactical coaching and curated community. Thanks for joining me today, Gio, it's nice to see you.
- Thank you so much.
- It's my pleasure. Because of the community that you run and the people you're working with in these changemakers, I actually want to start with a really kind of big question. So bear with me, but what is leadership to you? How are you seeing this show up in the work that you're doing and how you're showing up because you lead this large community?
- Thank you. I see it as a calling and I feel like if you've ever studied Joseph Campbell's work and understand how the hero's journey works, a lot of what I teach is that, we have our own personal story and our lens that we look through of how things are happening even right now, in the midst of what people are calling, I'll put the word crisis in quotations. And then we have our clients and our community and our tribes that we work with, and I think I am not the hero of the story. I think my community members are the hero. They're the main character and they're going through their storm and they want navigation. And I think as the leader of a community, it's all about providing direction, it's all about providing and being a beacon like a lighthouse. If you think of the lighthouse analogy, people want, they're in darkness. There's anxiety and fear and people want to have someone say, "Listen, I know the way, I've got the map, I have the light in the darkness, follow me." And to me, that is the way to look at things right now from a leadership perspective, it's to get through your own emotional rollercoaster first. And if you can, shift from anxiety to a place of calm and understanding, something that was taught to me once, which was if you look at a tornado, which is a super violent force, and you study it, when you look at the middle, the center of the tornado is completely calm. And this is one of my teachers teaching me that there can be stuff flying around you in the chaos and all the things around you on the outside, and yet, as long as you are centered, and remain calm, everything's fine because you can navigate that storm. And I think for me, I've been through so many fun situations and crises in the past and been through a lot of stuff and have done a lot of the work so that, when this thing started, I had zero anxiety. I'm like, because I'm calm, I'm responsible to step up and lead and help other people through this.
- Yeah, I really resonate with that. And thank you for sharing that, I really resonate with that. I had a similar reaction, I was actually talking to someone we both know, JJ Kelly, a couple of weeks ago and saying that I initially felt really guilty that I wasn't hit with the anxieties a lot of people had and I flipped it to be like, this is actually my strength inside of this, is that I have done that work to be calm and to have a slightly different lens on it. That's not something I should feel guilty about. And I think a lot of times that cut that shows up for people who are servant minded. I mean, like crises, let's put it in quotes because I recognize that not everyone sees it that way, but who really are about how can I be of service as the starting point? And so I recognize that in you very strongly. And the question that comes up for me when you're talking about that is you work with people who are in every sense of a scale, in different parts of that scale, whether its size of business, size of team, where they are in terms of anxiety, how their business is doing right now, every point on that scale, you're working with people on scale. So how do you be that beacon and that lighthouse and that place of calm when they're all over the ocean?
- It's first to understand that everyone is different, and yet there's a through line. And there's always a pattern and things that connect all of us together. So we feel like we're separate, but we're actually one unified community. And we're simply at different stages of the path, but we're all walking the same path. And part of it is to request the help and assistance of people who aren't in that anxious place, and it doesn't matter where you are. I have friends who are, as an example, running eight figure businesses, with teams of hundreds of people, who have to do a lot of layoffs. And that's the stress. And then I have people who are in the startup mode where they're like, "I don't even know where to make my next dollar." And that's the stress. We're all on the same path and same journey. But I think, for those of us who aren't as affected, and maybe even positively affected, because for some companies, like if you look at Zoom, Zoom just I think land is 600 million in funding. There are certain companies that are positively affected by what's going on. And I think it's their responsibility to help everybody else in some way, and helping means serving, and serving doesn't mean free. We did an event last week where we had Seth Godin on, and he had this beautiful distinction that there's a big difference between generous and free. And sometimes it's okay to be philanthropic and to give of your time. But it doesn't always necessarily mean you have to do things for free. I believe there should always be a value exchange, it doesn't have to be money, but there's more currencies than money. And it's also an opportunity right now to plant seeds in any context, where you're offering a gift of some way as a seed, that once this thing turns around, which could be a month from now, it could be a year from now, we don't know, but those seeds will sprout where everyone else at that time will be scrambling to start planting seeds. So I heard this beautiful distinction that the Chinese symbols for crisis, there's two symbols, one is danger, one is opportunity. And there's often massive opportunity when people feel like they're in a crisis. And actually, it also creates forced innovation. Like we were forced to turn what was a live mastermind private event into an online thing and I said, "Listen, if we're going to do this, we're not just going to try to replicate, or like have a new alternative, we're going to create a whole new thing." So we created a brand new kind of event that was only possible because of technology. And that was, in many ways, doing things that aren't possible at a live experience. And I think that kind of innovative thinking is available to all of us if we just pause for a second say, "Hey, what can we now do that we couldn't do before?"
- It can be really challenging for people to do it. So I actually, there's two things I want to say. So it can be really challenging for people to do that at the best of times, because we also often default into, well, we're just going to do it the way that we've always done it because we know that that works. So why would we take any sort of risk, let alone when there is the amount of uncertainty that there is right now. And this is not a COVID-19 thing, crises happen in smaller ways all the time. For me, it's why these conversations are so interesting is because while we are looking at it in this specific lens right now, they apply in other situations, there have been other crises, there can be an organizational crisis, it doesn't even have to be on a broader scale. So if someone is at that point where they have to start thinking about things differently, where they have to start innovating, how do you as a leader of an organization and as a leader of this community, how would you recommend they start thinking about it different? What are some of the things they can do to shift that from that place of hunkering down to opening up? Because to me, like that's my language is it's like closed in and hunkered versus opening up to the possibility.
- Well, this is my philosophy around all of this. And if we're talking in a entrepreneurial context, a lot of business owners focus on their thing, with their product, their service or the thing they sell. And then they ask who needs this thing? And they try to attract people who need the thing. If you flip that and say, "Who is my dream client, who am I serving, who is my tribe, who is my community," and start with them first, and then ask, "Where are they now, where do they want to be, and how can I help them bridge that gap with my things?" Because then the asset isn't your product, the asset is the relationships. And as crises happens, or as things change and shift, as long as you're deepening the relationship, you can shift with them. You can now ask your clients, your community, "Well, now what's going on and now what do you need?" And as long as you're the connector to the thing they need that helps them get further down their path, no matter what that direction is, and you're the one with the map of providing that GPS direction. That's how you can always not only survive, but navigate through troubled times like this.
- I love that. I hear more and more about the importance of relationships, especially in the entrepreneur world, and I'm a person who that is my whole world. I've always said that the only reason I have any semblance of success is because I focus very heavily on relationships and always have. And I don't see it as much in this the corporate world or the more traditional business world, even if it's not corporate. A lot of brick and mortars, for example, aren't as focused on that. They tend to be focused more on the thing they are doing, the product, the service, whatever it is, and that's their offering. And once they've saturated that, they're like, okay, let's add a new one in without-- It's like, "Okay, great, time for a new product or service." And I really am curious if you see this crisis this pause that we're in, this reset, this re-tooling, whatever you want to call this moment, as having the potential to shift some of that out of the entrepreneur, because when you're an entrepreneur, we're in a little bubble. Like we see other people doing this, and we're like, everyone is focused on relationships. And that's not necessarily the whole world. So do you see this as potentially as something like could shift and change and what that might look like on a broader sense?
- Totally, I think this is going to create a lot of shifts in general. So it will create force innovation, because people, if you think of brick and mortar, if people can't come to you, how do you go to them and who are them? Like a restaurant, for example, we have a restaurant in Toronto, called the Impact Kitchen, where I'm friends with the founder. And what I love about them is that they've built a community. It's one of the only restaurants I know that people feel bonded to the brands like, "I'm a member of this place." And now we can't go to them. So now they've created this thing called a community box where you can order a box of their product that comes to your home. And all of the proceeds from that community box go to fund their employees who are stuck at home. It's like a beautiful, brilliant way of innovating right now. So I think the opportunities are always there, but right now, it creates forced opportunity. And these shifts are going to keep happening. And it also shines a spotlight on things that aren't working. People can get away with a so, so or a terrible product if you have really good marketing, you know what I mean? And I'm not a fan of that stuff, I actually don't like it. And I think these kinds of opportunities or this crisis will force people to focus more on delivery and creating outcomes and creating results versus having shiny glossy marketing that leads to nowhere.
- I haven't thought of it that way, but I completely agree with that statement. I'm constantly fascinated by people who have the big marketing engine behind them. And listen, I've done this, I signed up for courses, I signed up for things where I was like, "Whoa, this is gonna solve all my problems." And then you get in and you're like, this is not what I was expecting it to be, this was, the delivery, whatever the case may be where you feel like you've, I mean, for lack of a better word kind of been swindled into this thing. And yet, we don't talk about that enough, in my opinion, so that other people are then doing the same thing. So I think that's a really how it will affect how we market and then the delivery of those things, I think is going to be really interesting two or three years from now.
- Well, I think, if you shift your focus on creating remarkability with respect to delivery, you don't have to do any marketing. Because people will just naturally want to talk about you. And I'm not saying to do zero marketing, but if the majority of your energy goes into making people delighted and excited about working with you and creating crazy, awesome outcomes for people, which I think is where the focus should go, there's less of a need for funnels and all these hacks and all these things that create complexity.
- Now, especially historically, maybe not now in this moment, but people have been like, "Oh, I'm three months into a business and I have two clients, let me create the world's largest funnel right away because that's how I get leads and more business," and they then shift that focus really quickly to maybe not the best place for them to be having focus.
- Yeah, like this kind of happened in 1999, 2000, where the whole .com bubble thing happened. It was like all these people, they had a business with no substance at all, but they were making or getting a ton of investment funding. And all of a sudden people realize, wait a minute, there's actually nothing here. And I think maybe that's happening or could happen now again, like a marketing bubble. I like that, a marketing bubble. In two years, we'll have another conversation and be like, "So let's talk about that marketing bubble that we talked about."
- This is not going to add up right now, but I kind of like it and I might use that again.
- Yeah, no, I like to tell I was like, oh, I think that's a really interesting perspective and definitely something that's valuable to think about. For anyone who's listening or watching, that's something that really is to think about is if you take that lens of there's a .com bubble and you shift it to the, let's say, there's a marketing bubble, what does that mean for you? What does that mean for your business? What does that mean for your people? What does that mean for your clients? Now, what do you do? And I think that, again, it's that leadership in that thinking three steps ahead. If this is a shift, if this is not going to be the way it was last year, then how do I be that beacon? How do I lead from here forward not looking backwards?
- So cool.
- So I want to ask this question. Are you seeing any trends or things in terms of people leading communities or leading organizations that you think that person is doing a really stellar job of showing up at a time when we don't really have a script for how to show up right now?
- Oh, wow.
- I know I totally put you on the spot. But you are in touch with so many people doing interesting things. So I was like, "Oh, Gio will have some interesting thoughts on this, I think"
- The first person and part of the challenge is I know so many awesome people. I don't want to like single one. But I'll focus first--
- Single or bunch of them out. That's fine, as many as you need
- Like my friend, Bob Gabbro, who is in the accounting financial world in Canada. So I don't how many people will see this outside of our geographic, beautiful bubble of Canada. But the second this thing started, and because there's so much conflicting, weird data around what to do, all of these supporting things from the government, different kinds of funds or loans you can apply for. And it's been chaotic and I've never seen someone work as hard as, like he just stepped up, and everyday, he's created a group where he's giving out free information, and giving downloads and just all the things to keep people updated every single day on what's possible and helping people through the crisis. In that same token, John Porter, I don't know if you know, John from BarterPay.
- Yeah.
- And I reached out to him quick. I'm like, "Listen, let's do something together for our community," because what he's now, he's putting together 10 million in funding through his Barter credits. So he has a network of businesses right now based in Canada that can trade their unused inventory or unused time service for Barter credits, which is like an alternative currency and then spend those credits on other people in the network to get product service that you might need. And now he has this new thing where you can get loans, so the idea is you get a loan of Barter credits that you can spend within his network, and then you pay back the loan in your product and service. So you don't have to actually use cash. And he's giving like over $10 million worth of these loans, and one Canadian dollar is one barter credit. So I was like, that's awesome. And, yeah, I don't know there's so many people doing amazing things. But I think that's the thing. It's like it's the time where we need to step up and lead, and it's the time we have to stand up and speak up louder and serve more. Both of the cases that you mentioned and in your case as well, for what it's worth. It's also about being visible in whatever way. So I'm in Bob's group as well, where he's giving away all the information. And while a team like, it is a small-ish, I don't know how, but it's like it's a specific community, but he's highly visible in that community and he's showing up. I don't see him on everything in the world, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's who are your people to what you were saying, and how are you showing up for them? And you do that with your people and John does that with inside of his, in the the Barter pan what he's creating, and I think to me, that's a really interesting takeaway, and thing to think about his whatever, wherever you are, as a leader, whatever your community is, whatever your company is, whatever your team looks like, whether you're a community on Facebook or in , you have a chance to step up inside of that space to be a leader, figure out what that looks like for you. So I'm always mindful of time, and I know we're getting close to the end. So the the big broad question I always ask is, is there anything inside of this topic of leadership, in general or you're leading it through difficult times that you either want to emphasize or say that we didn't get a chance to get to because I know that there's lots of stuff going on in the world.
- I think one of the biggest fears people have when they're running, let's say, a business or even in by themselves, is that they get a comfort zone based on their delivery of their thing or based on how it's supposed to be or what normal is. And then something like this happens, and you either look at it like a negative or positive. And it's weird to talk about crisis as a positive, but as long as you understand things are always cyclical, that things will eventually, it might be a recession, and they go back to growth. And you have the opportunity to change and like change makers cannot be afraid of change. It's kind of in our DNA, we're supposed to be the ones creating change. So now's the time to do that. And like don't be the blockbuster or the Kodak of your industry, where it's like, well, this is how it's always done. People will always use film or people will always go to a store to rent their movies. Be the Netflix and understand that this is the time when you can experiment with that kind of thing. And don't get stuck in your old ways. And the cool thing is when you experiment, you may actually find something that you couldn't have connected the dots going backwards, but now becomes a whole new thing and in a whole new category and a brand new innovation that could be 10 times as big as your current thing. So have the courage to experiment right now with different ways of creating similar outcomes for your clients or customers, but not the way you typically do it, in a new way, and see what happens.
- That's the perfect way to end this because it is the best summary and great advice for anyone who is struggling or isn't sure what to do or is just wants to do something, and is like, "Where do I start?" So it's a great way to help them think about it differently. Thank you for joining me today. It's been really wonderful chatting with you and seeing your face, and I hope that you are well in the rest of however long this isolating happens.
- Thank you so much.
- Thanks for listening to us talk around leadership in challenging times. If you would like to learn more about us or any of our guests, you can find us online at www.leadingthroughcrisis.ca. If you like the show, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts from.