Founder of The Chakra Business Academy, Tamara Arnold is a three-time international best-selling author, an international speaker, and an expert on chakras for business. In this episode, we discuss how reconnecting with oneself can be a great way to show leadership in times of uncertainty.
A mompreneur, mental health advocate, energy reader, and spiritual badass, Tamara helps spiritual entrepreneurs break through the energy blocks in their chakras so they can make a bigger impact in the world with their epic missions. She has provided personal training and coaching for hundreds of people to help them “break free from self-sabotaging behaviours.”
Tamara created the Rebel Unicorn movement and invites those who consider themselves as “misfits” to realize their dreams and ambitions. She nurtures her community of “rebel unicorns” through online courses such as the Energy Mastery Apprenticeship and Chakra Reading.
Carrying on with her mission to share her knowledge with people, Tamara wrote the books -” The Blind Leap”,” The Magical Business Method”, and “My Kid is Driving Me Crazy”. Tamara believes that everything we do reaches somebody, and it is a better scale to measure our actions against that rather than gauging them on some external validations.
Tamara describes our current situation as an invitation to reconnect with humanity, and it can start within ourselves by asking who we are and what we truly want. She shares with us some tips on how to celebrate ourselves even during difficult times. If you are interested in mastering your chakras and discovering your real gifts, this episode is for you!
Find out more about Tamara on her website: www.tamaraarnold.ca
Connect with her on Facebook: www.facebook.com/tamaraarnoldcoaching
Instagram: www.instagram.com/tamaraarnoldcoaching
- Welcome to "Leading Through Crisis," a conversation series exploring the idea of leadership in challenging times. Hi, welcome to "Leading Through Crisis." I'm Celine Williams, and I'm here today with Tamara Arnold. Tamara is a three-time international bestselling author and international speaker and an expert on chakras for business. So thank you for joining me today.
- Thank you for having me today, Celine. I feel like I didn't do like my, "Ooh, I've been introduced" pose. That's why I do it, so people are like, "Ooh, look at that." I'm really happy that you wanted to speak about this concept of leading through crisis, because, you know, part of the impetus for me doing this is to have people who have different viewpoints and experiences and backgrounds and lenses on leadership and crisis. And I think that you have a really unique lens on this, because you, you know, you talk about this marriage of chakras and business, for example, right? Like, you're coming from a really different viewpoint on the world and energy and business in general. So I really just wanna open this up, because you have this really unique lens and ask, where do you wanna start inside of this? Like what stands out to you about leadership and crisis and this broad topic that I've thrown out there as the hook for this whole series?
- Well, this has kind of come up in the last couple of days, actually the last week. And I wanna just start the conversation here, because I think it feels really powerful, is that I actually believe that leading through crisis right now is an invitation to reconnect to our humanity. Right? We are so fucking human that we can't ignore it anymore. And so, as the people who are leading, or as the people who are stepping up, as the people who are championing it, like, you know, maybe have a higher frequencies or vibrations and are saying like, "Let's rise, let's rise." You know, "Let's look at this, what's happening in the world from a different standpoint," we get to like, totally put the masks and, you know, these things that we all had our hair done or our nails done, like all these things that we thought were important to show up as a leader, they get to go away and we get to have our children interrupting us in our calls and we get to have our cat's butts showing up and we get to be making more mistakes and just being more vulnerable and more real. And I think that that's the call to action right now. How real can we be? How real can we make it?
- Yeah, so two things really quickly. I have joked so many times that before I start an interview, before I have a conversation with someone on film now, on video, I'm like, I may be BBC dad, just with cats behind me. So that BBC dad with like the kid running in and the mother, that might be cats, you might see cats behind me. So I appreciate that, because it's just the reality of, and I work from home all the time, but now that this is everyone's reality and so people are actually able to connect and see it and accept it. Whereas, before, I felt like I'd have to kick my, I'd have to close the door, kick the cats out and have that be separate. Now I'm like, that's not real. So I appreciate that.
- You wanna know what I feel is more real that I'm like so glad's out in the open, that I don't ever wear dress pants. I haven't worn dress pants or like fancy pants, ever, for three years. And I've kind of kept that a secret. And now, you know what I mean? All over Facebook and social media it's like, business on the top. And like, cool. Now, I do change from what I call my night, true pajama flannels to day pants. You know what I mean? Like that's my day work outfit. And technically this is my business. This has always been my business attire. 'Cause I get to talk about magic all day long. So, that determines it's obviously up on the list. Coolest shows that launched magic out, in my era, into the world.
- I love that you said the pants, by the way, because I think that that is, I think it's really interesting that so many people still feel the need to, and I've seen lots of, to your point, lots of photos on Facebook where it's like a man in like a dress shirt, even with a blazer on top, and then like gray sweat pants on the bottom, but no one can see. And I find it even fascinating that we're still in a place where we, right, right, but where we feel the need, in that kind of extreme case, where it's, you're that formal on top and that informal on the bottom. Why can't we just wear a T-shirt? Why can't we wear a golf shirt, or whatever it is that we're comfortable in? Because it doesn't make us any less professional. It doesn't make us any less of a leader to show up in the way that we feel like our best self, whatever that is, no judgment. If your best self is you walk into every meeting in a ballgown, great, do it. But whatever that is for you, that should be okay.
- And I agree with that, because it's all about, in the work that is the work that I love to do, it's about that, right? So like we, technically, our human bodies are our homes, like we look like we have a physical home. It's true, our reality mirrors that. It looks like we used to have offices or things like that, but technically this body is your office. And when you tap into that sensation or feeling, and you're like, "What do I actually wanna wear today?" Like, "What feels good for me? What feels good for me to show up for my clients, to show up for my day? To be at the highest version of myself?" Sometimes it is like a sweatshirt. And then when you put that blazer on or you put that thing, it's just like, you're like, right? Sometimes the blazer is the, have you watched the movie about Mr. Dressup?
- I have not. The one with Tom Hanks, right? Or is it Tom Hanks?
- [Tamara] I don't think it's Tom Hanks.
- [Celine] I don't think it's Tom Hanks, either.
- It was like the actual documentary on Mr. Dressup.
- Oh, I have not seen that one either. So no.
- You're Canadian, Celine. Like, he was a, he was like a big deal.
- I know. I know.
- But like when he came in in the day and he put on a different, like he changed his sweater, he changed into his slippers. It was like that crossover from the outside to the inside. Like some people have, and, like Todd Herman talks about the alter ego, like putting on something that, so some people, the blazer might be that thing where it's like, I go to work. This is my superpower work jacket, or my, you know, whatever it is. So I celebrate that. But I think that that ownership of whatever it is that like, ooh, like it's just so right for me.
- Yes, I think that's the big difference, right? Is that it's not dictating that it has to be a certain way. So if putting on your jacket is the, you know, I know for me, so when I speak on stages, for example, and I've been in a situation where I was asked to speak on a stage more last minute, someone dropped out, I was there to do something else. And they were like, "Can you fill this role?" I was like, "Yeah, sure. I'd love to do it, that's great." But I did not have what I would normally want to wear when I was speaking on stage. For me, it's like, great, I know how I wanna look when I step out. And it was, I can't watch the video from that, 'cause it doesn't feel like my best me stepping onto that stage. So that's just a me thing. No one in that audience gave a crap. But for me, that was important. And that's the really key difference is that no one dictating you need to show up to work or you need to show up looking this way. But us having the freedom to be like, this is how, when I feel this way, I feel like a leader. I feel like I am confident. I feel like I can handle this.
- Yes, which brings me to something so powerful, as a conscious creator, as somebody who is manifesting your reality the way that you want to, it's that choice, right? Like that I am choosing this. I, you know, what am I choosing? Why am I choosing it? And I think that that's a real powerful first step in leadership. Like I used to. Like the minute you stop thinking your choices are outside of you, that it's coming from some place or something else, and you take that, and you're just like, 'cause like I'm choosing to wear this. I'm choosing to step up on stage, even in the clothes that don't feel comfortable for me. I'm choosing.
- Yes. Well, and I wanna tie this back to, you mentioned the world, the world, the word vulnerability earlier. And I think, so there is both strength inside of making these choices, but it's also really vulnerable to own those choices. And the whole, I mean, thank Brene Brown for finally making vulnerability part of the conversation when it comes to work in any way, shape or form, but that's still a really new concept for leadership and for whatever, whether you're self-employed, whether you run a business, whether you're an executive in a large company, it's a new concept in general. And people are not comfortable with it. And the truth is that, inside of choice is a big piece of vulnerability.
- I'll call it that because they think that, even as leaders, we can get into, look how vulnerable I am, but I'm still only putting up what I think is safe. We're not really getting as vulnerable as we can, like the true, like I'm falling a fucking part, and like all those kinds of things. And one of the things that's, for me, and vulnerability is my superpower. It's actually how I serve my clients. So it's not like everybody else. And so for me, that whole slogan, you talk about the scar, not the wounds, you know what I mean? That does not resonate for me, personally, in the leadership that I have, because I'm here to share it in the moment. Like while I'm in the trenches, while I'm going, it makes me like wanna cry. Like when I'm feeling that level of discomfort, I want people to know it's okay to be that uncomfortable. And because the people that I work with tend to be empaths, light workers, healers, sensitive people, all that kind of stuff, I wanna bring awareness to the emotional states that we're in, having emotional intelligence and not spiritually bypassing and being willing to say like, "I need help. Send me some healing, send me some love. Can I please be in this pit of mud with you?"
- I wanna dig into this a little bit, because I both agree and disagree with that. And I love a conversation where there's a both situation. So I agree that all, every feeling we have is perfect. We are meant to have all the feelings we have. They're giving us information. I really, no feeling is good, no feeling is bad, no feeling is better than the other. There's not a hierarchy of feelings inside of us. This is not real. We have constructed it, but that's not real. They're all information. So, 100%, we are meant to feel whatever we are meant to feel. And there's nothing wrong with saying, "I am feeling this way," and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging where you or I or anyone in any situation is at. I fully agree. I 100% agree with that. And I think that when, the challenge for me in thinking about this, and I bring this up because I actually would love to hear your perspective on it, right? Like I don't think I'm right. I'm just saying my perspective. But the challenge for me becomes when we are in a place of leadership, whether we are leading a community, whether we are leading a team, whether we are leading a company, whatever leadership it is, if we are teaching from that place of the wound, if we are operating from that place where we're stuck in it, then we are not the leader in that moment. And it's okay to ask other people to step up and lead, but it's like a shift of roles, energy, whatever you wanna call it. And there's nothing wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with showing up that way. But I think there is a lot to be, I think there's a lot to be said about being able to, when you're past that, reflect back, acknowledge what it was, and teach from that place, as opposed to being in the energy of that wound and trying to teach from there or lead from there.
- Yes, and I can see that so clearly, but for me, what I feel is that, oftentimes, it's how it's presented, right? So like if it's through the lens of being in a victim consciousness, and oftentimes we're in the victim consciousness because there's a past programming that's actually activated through what we're experiencing in the now. And so it's not in service if your eight-year-old self or your 14-year-old self is crying out and guiding the lesson or guiding the service that you're trying to get out into the world. And it's coming across as like, "Save me, fix me, I'm broken." But, for me, to show up and be like, I think it was 2018, was a very vulnerable post that I did on Facebook. And it was like, I made over $300,000 in my business last year, and my mortgage just bounced. And I mean, I get spirit guidance. So I was lying in bed that night, and I was just like embarrassed and overwhelmed. And like, I just had the best year in my business I'd ever had. And it was feeling this guilt, and I was feeling the shame, and I was feeling all this thing. And like at 11:30 at night, the spirit's like, "You need to write this post." And I was like, "I don't want people to know this." Like "This is like, how are they gonna wanna hire me? How were they going to want to like, see me as that leader in the scope of work that I do?" And they're like, "This is gonna be the title of the post. This is what you need to do." And so I was like, "Jeff, is it okay?" My husband was asleep beside me. I'm like, "Jeff, is it okay if I write this post?" Because it's about our situation, it's about our circumstance. So again, whenever I'm doing something, even writing my books or if it involves somebody else, I'm asking their permission to share the story. He's like, "Tamara, whenever you get spirit and guidance, you have to do that." He gets the post, I write this thing on Facebook. And it was, it was from the place of discomfort. And I woke up at six o'clock the next morning, 'cause now it's like almost midnight when I'm pressing buttons. So I wake up at like 6:30 in the morning, and I'm like, "No! What have you done? It's so early, nobody's seen this post." And I run to my phone in the living room and I picked up, Celine. And I'm like, "I can erase it." And 40 people have already commented on this post saying, "Thank you, thank you. This is how, you know, we don't feel like we're failing anymore in our business. We don't feel like we have," like, so for me, when you're not coming from the place of the victim, when you're coming from a place of service, when you're not activated or charged in some other form or story that comes along with it, I think it can be a really powerful way to show up in leadership.
- And I think that you've made a really important distinction, right? Is that there is, you're not coming from a place of victimhood. You're not coming from, you are coming from a place of service. You're not coming from a place of reaction, because I think that, and, you know, people who've done any work on emotional intelligence, period, let alone the kind of work that you're doing, but if you've done work on emotional intelligence, then making that shift to not, to responding as opposed to reacting, should, ideally, I reckon, but if you've done this work, ideally, you're able to get into that place of responsiveness and seeing it and serving from there, as opposed to reacting. And that's a really important distinction for me. And the way you crystallize that's really helpful, because it's, again, you can be vulnerable and come from that place of, I don't have all the answers. I fuck this up. This is not a great thing about me. PS, I have imposter syndrome. Whatever it is, it's okay to share from that. It's actually ideal to share from that place. 'Cause you're doing it to serve other people and say, "Hey, we're all in this together." Not to say, you're not going, "Hey, solve my problem. It's all about me." Like that's a really different approach.
- Totally, and I'm gonna share something, and this might, it's coming through, and I'm like, "All right, we're going in." One of the biggest, most powerful experiences I've ever been to seeing both sides of this in live formation, like coming through where you could see it through the lens of leadership and support and guidance, but also from, "Hey, this now gives me permission to say like, 'Look how terrible these things have been,'" Was the Me Too movement. And that's a big statement. And I mean, I am part of it. Like I have, I am straight up, had lots of shit go down in my life, to say like, "I am a survivor," and a thriver of that, actually. But in that arena, there came the let's lead through this. Let's make this a really empowering part of our story to say, like, we can, you know, become the champions of something that is now being talked about, that's calling to the forefront to say, like these things could have happened, and, and through them and because of them, I'm able to rise and support and share and guide in such a different capacity of understanding and compassion and empathy because of it, versus it's given me every reason to showcase now why I haven't been able to do everything because these things have happened to me. This is the reason I can't, you know, X, Y, Z. And so I'm just using this as an example, again, as a thriver of it, where it came through, even as an energy leader. So this is an unfair statement for me as well, because I literally read energy off of every word that comes through. You and I have talked about that, right. Is that we don't just see what people are posting. We feel the energy that is behind the post. And so it's like, it really sets that intention or that standard of like, where were you when you came through? Where was that transmission coming from?
- The word that I wanted to say that came to me was if it comes from a place of ego and it's about me, then it's not really leadership. It is, you want, it's like that attention seeking. Whereas it comes from a place of, this is a thing that is happening or has happened, and it is to, collect is not the right word, but it is more about the collective experience and other people being able to see themselves and be drawn to your experience because they see something in it, they align with it, whatever the case may be, then that to me is leadership and service. It is like there, and that it's such a subtle, it's such a subtle distinction to make in the sense that I think some people think they are being of service and think they are leading, when really they are just looking for attention and it is about ego. And so I say that because like, it can be hard to be like, this is the exact line between the two of them, but there is a line between the two of them.
- Well, if it's coming from fear or if it's coming from love, and then there needs to be a level of detachment, right? Like, I'm not attached to, you know, whether this is received or if it's, you know, the number of likes or the number of, how much support I get. Like, you know what I mean? It's this is the truth. And if it supports one person and helps them in some form or way, I'm just gonna get it out into the world, trusting that the spirit's got it, that it's not about me at all. And to be able to disassociate from that and step away and then allow it to just do its thing, to breathe, to expand, to reach whomever it's meant to touch and not be like. Do people like me, is this good? Did I reach somebody? It's so outside of us, whether we reach somebody. And it is so on the beautiful scale of, everything that we do reaches somebody. Like, what if we just think into that, and not gauge it on some external validation kind of experience.
- I think that is beautiful. And I think it is even harder than normal for most people to not engage and not care and not want that validation in a time of crisis. I think that, does that make sense?
- I forget, Celine, that I have, like, and I think it was Angela Lauria that was talking about it, or somebody was talking about, maybe it was Jesse Johnson, one of my mentors, along the way was talking almost, like, I have done so much spiritual work on myself. I have done so much work on myself that, you know, what's the word that I wanna say? I hate when I forget words, especially like, this is the humanness of these moments where, and it's such a good word and it's so important, but right now, privilege, like I have spiritual privilege right now to feel, you know, not in the moment or not in the fight or flight or not being in that state of discomfort within my energetic body or have all these charges going off on my past experiences of all of this stuff being called up that is happening in this crisis. And so I often forget the privileged space that I'm in to, yes, it is really hard right now, and yes, everybody is being charged in making these decisions is more challenging. And we don't have the same perception within ourselves to notice where the information is coming from. It's true.
- And I think it's, I appreciate that. I, you know, I was talking to JJ, who you also know, last week, and we were talking about that it is important to acknowledge the privilege that, you know, whatever privilege it is, it's not a dirty word. It is a reality, right? And it's okay to acknowledge it and say, "This is my experience, because I have this privilege, and inside of this," you know, I've said this before. I was feeling really guilty about not, I'm okay inside of this, right? Like I'm not, it's not like I've lost my job and I might lose my house and I don't know where my next dollar is coming from, or I can't feed my family. Like, that's not my reality. So I know just because of that alone, I have privilege in this situation. And it's okay for, you know, I was feeling really guilty about it. And I shifted that, because I was like, it's okay for me to feel okay right now. And because it enables me to serve and offer and, you know, be of service and lead in a way that helps people who aren't feeling that way, who are struggling, who need some of that support. And I am in the privileged position to be able to provide some sort of support or some resource or whatever it is, a podcast, a video like this, that someone could listen to and go, "Yeah, I got something valuable from that."
- Ooh, this is such a powerful conversation for me, because, you know, as somebody who doesn't believe that there is an order of difficulty in miracles, I think that, you know, making a video is just as impactful as donating $5 million right now to support people in. It's like where we are in excess is the beautiful space that we can pour from. So in my world, the leadership comes in as offering meditations. It's offering, you know, energy readings. It's offering what it is that is already my gift, my stardust, my light, to those who maybe haven't had a chance or have the experience of it and offer them something, a touch, a light, of an aha, a moment, a breath, to be able to step forward and have an easier day or an easier week or a moment of clarity. So I agree with that. And I think it's so important, wherever you are in your journey as a leader, to realize, what is you? What is your essence? What is your vibration? What is your gift? Which, yours is leadership, right? Like you're a catalyst unicorn, you know? You get to like, you know, change the face of leadership. And so I think that you knowing that, knowing that you don't have to have something outside of yourself, again, coming back to that whole space, it's what do I have that is of service right now, even if you are at home and you're like, "But I'm not a leader." You can compliment somebody today. You can literally send somebody an emotional hug and they might not even know it, a vibration hug. And that is service.
- And you nailed something on the head that I talk about a lot, and it's come up in a few of these interviews, not enough of them in my humble opinion, but it is that leadership is not a title. No one gives you the title. No one says, and I say this as someone who, for years, that that was my default setting, that you're a leader when someone has deemed you a CEO. You are a leader when someone has deemed you a bestselling author. You're a leader when someone has deemed you, the, you know, the host of an international show, whatever, that is leadership. That was my default setting. And I fundamentally do not believe that anymore. I think we are all leaders if we choose to be, and if we step into it. Because we're all leading in different ways. We all impact other people. If you impact another person, you are a leader, full-stop. Tell me one person on earth who doesn't impact someone in some way. Yes, like right now, I am like bowing to the people, the parents, the moms, the dads who are like, "I am going to teach my kids from home. And this is gonna be the most incredible experience ever." To me, that is another form. Like you are stepping up in your role as a parent to lead your child's education, like in such a powerful way. That's not my my way. I love you. I'm so grateful to you. Like, please send help. That's just not mine.
- I don't have children. And I am loving the memes where it's like, I just spent one day at home homeschooling my children, every teacher needs to be paid a million dollars a day for this. I'm like, I can't even, I ran a tutoring company for years. I cannot imagine what parents are dealing with right now. And you're right, that is leadership.
- And again, I'm going to even say. like, I'm privileged. My youngest, they're 14, and they're in high school. They're in grade nine. And they are so self sufficient. Like they take care of their own schooling. And I was like, "Did you do your homework?" "Oh yeah, it's done." By like one o'clock, they just want it done. So they're taking charge, they're doing the things. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm so lucky. Like, I am so lucky right now." The biggest piece I think is no self shame. I am so lucky.
- And that is a hard thing for people to do. And again, you know, now, especially because people are feeling more reactive, there's so much quote, "Uncertainty." I mean, listen, there's always uncertainty. Nothing is certain. We have the perception that things are certain. That's not real. However, I recognize that now it feels more uncertain for people, right? So whatever illusions of stability that we had, societaly, have shifted massively right now. And people are aware of the uncertainty. So, you know, I think that it's very hard for people when they are feeling that intense uncertainty across the board, to not shame themselves, to not do the, like, I feel like all of that is just so much more prevalent for people and so much more in their forefront, forethought, whatever that word is, now more than ever.
- Well, because I think our identity centers are getting rocked, right? Like, so how we identified ourselves, like as the person in the job, right? So if you are no longer in your job and you have your identity as being, you know, this great of a worker or that, and then we've lost our social interaction. So maybe your identity to be was like, you were super fun when you were out with your friends and you had like these versions of yourself that existed, or that you were philanthropic and you did community care in your community or like all these things. And so those identifications no longer are existing. And we're all getting rocked with the who am I and why am I here. Like what? And I share this from a place of, when my identity got rocked, when, you know, I was codependent through and through for most of my life, I was the child. And, you know, my life was like identified as being, my mom had severe mental illness, I identified as having to like protect and save and do all this for my mom. And then I had a child with severe mental illness. And I was the mama, I was the champion, I was all of these things and I had all these identifications within myself that I had built, that when my son and I stopped talking, so this is coming from a place of like, I remember, I remember what it felt like when my identities were taken from me, and I walked into my living room and it was the scariest thing I'd ever gone through. I was like, "Whoa, stop the presses. Who the fuck is Tamara, without being this and without being that and not being needed and not?" And I had this open road appear before me, which, in a way, coronavirus is offering us, right? Like, "Ooh, what do I want?" And I can say, I've never been more devastated. That was the scariest scary, like, I remember, it's imprinted walking into my living room and having that thought in my head as being one of those catalystic moments of being, "Ooh, what do I want, who am I? Because I don't know. Everything's been taken."
- I think that's really powerful. And it's, it hadn't been in my head in that clear a way or clear an explanation. But I think that's a really, really important point is that people's identities have been taken away. And as you said that, like, literally I was like, I have a friend who messaged me something about how, you know, as a social butterfly, she's really struggling right now. And as you said it, I was like, "Oh, her identity in her brain is I'm a social butterfly." You know, people have, we do, you know, I am the go to person at work. Whatever that identity is that we hang onto, a lot of that has been stripped away. And it reminds me of, and I just say this in case it's valuable for anyone, when my mother, so both of my parents are dead, when my mom died I had a very conscious moment where I was like, "I'm nobody's daughter anymore. I am not a daughter. Daughter is not part of my identity. Like, it's a part of my history, but I don't have parents to be a daughter too." And that was, that shift and that awareness was very powerful for me and a lot came out of it. But I remember that moment where it was like, and I recognized someone had said to me, that someone was using the word orphan. And I was like, "I mean, I don't feel like I'm an orphan, because I had parents, but definitely the identity of daughter has shifted for me." And it was a big piece of my identity. My mother was lovely and very needy. So that was a reality. That was the big piece of my life. And this is doing the same thing for everyone in different ways.
- So coming to like that, 'cause I love talking about chakras, right? I say we're getting rocked to our roots, because our roots is where identity centers live. It is how we feel connection. That's how we feel community. It's how we feel like part of a tribe or something, right? And so, again, when we already have a tribe or we've created something, as a leader, like in that way, then we can still lean in. Like, how many of us who have it, we're like, "Ooh, I'm just gonna serve more in my communities. I'm just gonna like, you know, offer more. And I'm gonna be more in service to what I've already built, because I have this collection, this community." And sometimes outside of that, and I'm bringing this up for anyone who needs to hear it, is the propaganda right now and the social adding. And what people are saying is like, "Oh, you have to give more to be," you know, like right now people are in crisis, these are this, you know, go above and beyond and all of these things. But if you have a unsettled familial relationships or all of this, right now, we're in a bit of a rocked at the root thing, because now we're being faced with all of it. So we take away all the things that identify us, and then we turn around and we're like, "Oh, so maybe I was going to work and I was running away from all those things, because this is like, what I didn't wanna deal with, with my loved one or my spouse or my family or all of this." And, now, not only are our identities being rocked, but we're like, I said to my husband, I'm like, "I bet you," or, I said, "Relationships are going through the ringer right now, like 100%, being in this space." And he's like, "Eventually we're gonna leave coronavirus, having more divorce rates than any other time." And then I talked to a therapist friend who said, "It's absolutely happening. Two people I know alone have already separated." So I'm bringing this up because, you know, again, this is all at that level of community support, having, and no shaming, no shaming where this pandemic straight up is saying, "What are the skeletons in your closet, in your energetic body, that you haven't been looking at, that you have been pushing away from?" I have had to, like, my, again, I'm spiritually privileged. Again, I have all of these things. I've been working on myself consistently, but even my own shit is coming up to say, "Do you see me? You going to do something about this?
- Yeah, it's like, because everything is so quiet, we can actually hear it now. And we can actually pay attention to it and look at it. And I think it's, I mean, I think it's scary for a lot of people to be doing that. And I think it was unexpected, because they didn't get to choose the time and place that they actually had to look at whatever was really going on. And I think it's also, for me, the thing that I noticed, 'cause I'm constantly, and this is one of the, one of the things that I'm really passionate in the world, is breaking down societal expectations, breaking that. I have a whole thing called deconstructing the constructs, right? Let's deconstruct the constructs that you have that were given to you by your parents, by society, by school, by whatever it is. And to me what's really exciting about this is that this is like a forced deconstruction for a lot of people because they actually have to figure out what they want, what matters to them, what their values are, like that, not what, you know, society tells me life should look like or how life should go, not what religion tells me life should look like or how life should go, not what my peer group tells me life should look like, not what my parents' values are, but me, in this moment, who am I? And that identity, that getting clear on that piece of identity is, I mean, I think it's really challenging for people right now. And it is gonna result in divorces and things, because who we thought we were was not us, it's the constructs that we just adopt. We go, "Yup, okay. I'm gonna take, yup. Okay. That's what people, yep. I just wanna fit in. This is how I find community. Cool, let's just do that."
- Yeah, you couldn't have said it any better, Celine. And so, but that's so true. Like the, who am I? What do I want? What is it? And I think that that is the gift that this is, 'cause we have those thoughts, feelings, and emotions that something's not right, that something's not, you know, we're meant for more or something needs to shift or change. Like, we've all had them. And this moment, it's like the rug got pulled out from under me and it was like, great. Sometimes I say, you know, careful what you wish for, because when we wish for something, it comes in whatever form will actually have us face it. And I think as a consciousness, as a collective consciousness, as a wholeness, you know, we've heard the feather, the brick, the Mac truck kind of thing. And I think that there's been so many, collectively across the entire world, having those thoughts for so long and not thinking about them and pushing them aside, and like, you know, that we as a community, as a collection, as a consciousness, got our entire, like the world instead. Now, there we go, we all wish for it, on some level, we did.
- For people who are struggling with this, or who are, you know, in that, I know you talked about root chakra, but in that place of like struggling to find their identity or figure it out or find peace or clarity or whatever it is that it is right now, is there anything that they can do that can help them, that can serve them in some way, so they don't feel that, you know, ultimately I don't want people to feel the churn longer than they, and like, listen, churn is not bad. I'm not saying that there's not a gift inside the churn. That's not what I'm saying, but I think, especially because right now, a lot of people don't see an end to this, that they're really just stuck in the churn. And I, you know, one of my things is always like, "How do we get you out of that? And what can we do so that you're not stuck there? If you don't wanna be. If you wanna be stuck in the churn, you just enjoy the churn. Churn, churn away. It's great." But if you are looking for something to help get out of the churn, what can people do? What would you, you know, is there something that you would offer or suggest for people? Because of the chakra, because of this, 'cause you have a very, again, specific lens on this.
- They're going to get two things, right? A, I'm annoyingly simple. Like people are always like, "Tamara, seriously?" And I'm like, "Yeah, that's it." So here, I'm gonna enact something. 'Cause we all get in a spiral, we all get in a churn. And so, watch me now. I'm in a spiral. You're gonna get to see my roots pants. Just stand up, physically. And like when you're swirling, when you can't control your mind, when things are just too much, physically do this, jump out. Just make it like, you can't do it from a mindset. You can't do it from your own like head space. You know, I'm like, "I'm out of the churn" like that. But like to intend, make a strong intention, I'm done being in this spiral, and then jump out. And you're going to feel fucking silly. I don't wanna call you out. Everybody's gonna be like, "You're saying you want me to do that?" But it is such a strong intention to do it. And in an enactment. We talked about acting things out and doing that, right? The second thing is, you might not be able to do it in the churn, so that's why I wanted to get you out of the churn, is what was powerful for me. So I can only share what I know has worked for me and been something that has been empowering. And that was, I had to remember who I was. And I remembered it, actually, through a Leonie Dawson exercise. I don't know if you know who Leonie Dawson is. And she's from Australia and she's wicked. I always say she's like the most amazing, cray cray ever for me. I love her so much. And she was exactly what I needed to come. And she, in her program, was like, I think it might've been a hundred things you love to do. And I've made it like 50 things you love to do as a reconnection to identity, like a reconnection to self. What do I love to do? And it has to be things that are not attached to, what do I do for my kids? What do I do with my husband? Like, what do they like to do? And I'm just doing it. Like, what is it that I love to do? And what I had to do in this moment was go back to, well, who was I? Who was I before society, or all of these things, the religion, the parents, the teachers, like what was it that I love to do? And I, you know, coming into that, I love to write. I love to like walk the beach. I love to, and getting really clear on who you are, because when you have that clarity of identity, again, reformed and reconnected as yourself with a capital S, you have a list of things. You have a list of ways that you can say, "Oh, I am this, I am a reader. And I'm a writer. I am a dancer, a singer." and that's powerful.
- So I love that. Can I add something to that? Because as you said that, I was like, "I think that's great." And I know people. It's always and, this is our ongoing thing. But I know people who would do that, and they would make that list, and it would be the things that they love to be acknowledged for doing. So it becomes a, you know, I love dancing, but if there was never an audience, they would never dance. I love singing. But if there was never an audience or someone to say, "That was really great," they would not do it. So, to me, that's not really a thing you love doing if there's a validation inside of it. And so I think that what I would say is 100%, make that list, and your checkpoint is if no one ever knew you were doing that, no one ever knew that you were writing or dancing or singing, would it still be a thing you love?
- So important, in like, excuse me, that's why I was like, it has to be like, you have to take it away. And that is so much clearer than me saying it can't be for your children or your kids or anything else. Right, like, that such a, I like that. Take that. Advice that you take you guys from leaders is a thing you guys, and it's a beautiful thing.
- Listen, I always say this, the reason my company is called Revisionary, is because I don't think there's new ideas in the world. I think we were taking things and we're inspired by them and we revise them. And that is the beauty of us being able to connect and serve and learn from each other and grow. And it's what it's all about. It's what it's all about.
- Great.
- Before we wrap this up, I always like to ask this question. Is there anything that you wanted to say that we didn't get to, or something specific that you'd like to leave people with? No is a totally acceptable answer, by the way. You can be like, "I'm good." But I like to put the offer out there in case there's something that comes to mind.
- Yep, absolutely.
- [Celine] Great.
- Here we are in the trenches. If you are, you know, drowning right now, if you are you just sometimes being in the hole and, you know, like you said, being in the churn, it happens. And we can just jump out. Like, we are in it. I'm just gonna give you one thing to support you right now. And that is just to simply say, "What is one thing I need for me today? What is one thing I need for me today?" And whenever that comes through, whether it is to write in a journal, have a shower, reach out to a friend, call a therapist, whatever it is, if you get that thing done today, I want you to celebrate yourself. I want you to just go, like, "I was successful today. I had a good day." Don't think about all the things you didn't do. Think about this one thing that you asked, what do I need, and you fulfilled your need today. And I think that that is leadership. And I think that that's my best advice.
- I think that's a great, I think that's a great summary, and a great place to end thing. It's valuable and simple and anyone can do it. And I think that's phenomenal. So in the show notes, there will be a link to your website so people can check you out. But it's tamaraarnold.ca, if you're just listening on a podcast and don't wanna go click right away. And definitely check Tamara out, she's phenomenal. And I wanna thank you for taking the time to chat with me and for having this conversation. It was really fun.
- 'Cause you were fun. Thank you. I love you.
- I love you. Have a great day.
- [Tamara] You too.
- Thanks for listening to us talk around leadership in challenging times. If you would like to learn more about us or any of our guests, you can find us online at www.leadingthroughcrisis.ca. If you like the show, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts from.