Nicky Billou is an international best-selling author, host of the #1 podcast for thought leaders, the creator of the Thought Leader/Heart LeaderTM Designation and co-founder of eCircle Academy. He has helped dozens of business owners, coaches and consultants become real thought leaders and expand their business by six to eight figures a year. In this episode, we talked about the importance of growth and capacity to lead yourself in times of crisis or change before you can lead other people.
Nicky has studied business growth and ethical persuasion for decades. He spent the last 20 years learning the mindset of a champion. At eCircle Academy, he runs a yearlong Mastermind & Educational program working with coaches, consultants, corporate trainers, clinic owners, realtors, mortgage brokers and other service-based entrepreneurs, positioning them as authorities in their niche. Many of his clients have dramatically raised their revenue after learning the eCircle Success System.
His No.1 international best-selling books are “Finish Line ThinkingTM: How to Think and Win Like a Champion,” and “The Thought Leader’s Journey: A Fable of Life.” He is an in-demand and highly inspirational speaker to corporate audiences, such as RBC, Lululemon, Royal LePage and TorStar Media. He is an advisor and confidante to some of the most successful and dynamic entrepreneurs in Canada.
On The Thought Leader Revolution podcast Nicky has interviewed over 200 of the world’s top Thought Leaders, including: astronaut Chris Hadfield; George Ross of the Hit TV Series The Apprentice; Barbara Corcoran from Shark Tank; supermodel and business mogul Kathy Ireland and many others.
Nicky says in order for you to lead yourself, you have to be open to growing. “Right now, we’re going through this craziness and every one of us needs to be thinking about growth,” he says. Challenging yourself by reading more books, taking courses and hanging out with people who can sharpen you are some of the things he suggests.
“Love is the reason why we are here,” he says, adding that love may not only be romantic, but also love of life or love of going through a journey. He also underscores the importance of contribution to a community, saying “If we’re not here to give to other people, then why are we here?” He says by helping others, you’re going to grow as a person and become bigger than your problems or a crisis.
Nicky also shares about the importance of freedom and free enterprise to your business success, as well as how to position yourself as a thought leader so that clients come to you. If you are interested in thought leadership for your company or career advancement, and you want to learn how to win in business and in life, this episode is for you!
Find our more about Nicky’s work on his company’s websites: www.nicky360.com; www.eCircleAcademy.com
Podcast: www.TheThoughtLeaderRevolution.com
Youtube Channel: NickyBillou
You may access his Finish Line Thinking Scorecard: https://form.jotform.com/90206417017145
Connect with him through LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickybillou/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicky.billou
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nickybillou/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NickyBillou
- I'm Céline Williams and welcome to the Leading Through Crisis podcast, a conversation series exploring leadership in challenging times. So my guest today is Nicky Billou, who is a champion for free enterprise and entrepreneurs. He's a host of the number one podcast in the world for thought leadership, The Thought Leader Revolution where he's featured guests like Jack Canfield who is the author of "Chicken Soup For The Soul". Brian Scudamore the founder of 1-800-GOT-JUNK? and Barbara Corcoran from the hit TV series "Shark Tank". I've also been on it for what it's worth. He's also the author of the number one bestselling book, "Finish Line Thinking: How to Think and Win Like a Champion". So Nicky, thanks for joining me today.
- Céline, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
- Absolutely. So because this podcast is really about the concept of leadership and leading through difficult times and resiliency, I always like to start by asking, what is your experience with the concept of leading through crisis or your actual lived experience of what that has been like for you?
- You know, that's a fantastic question. So several years ago, actually over a decade ago, I had a a business and that business was in the field of health and fitness. I had the privilege of working with two great Canadian Olympic gold medalists, Mark McCoy and Donovan Bailey. And one of the, one of the key things that really defined that experience was one of our partners left the company. And that was a crisis because he was in charge of doing a bunch of things and, I had to step in and make sure that that was seamless. And I was scared. I was nervous. And it was anything but perfect. It was a bumpy ride. But we made it happen. And one of the things I learned from that is, it's not the things that you can see that constitute a crisis, that constitute something that can knock you off track. The things that blindside you, like a car coming from the other direction that you don't see that hits your car and makes it a fish tail, you know?
- Yeah.
- And that was important to understand. And I had no idea this guy was gonna no longer be a part of our company when he was, not a part of our company any longer, I had to step in and and show some leadership and do what needed to be done to make that company go forward. And then a few years later, I was in business with my then wife and seemingly out of the blue, she came to me and said, "Hey don't want to be married to you anymore." And that was a crisis because we owned a company together as well as had two children together. And it was, it was like getting a two by four to the back of the head for me. And, that company dissolved and was no more. And my part of it needed to survive, but it went from this much success and influence and revenue to this much success, influence and revenue, and it almost went out of existence. So I can tell you that that was an exercise in you get knocked down seven times, you get back up eight. That's a famous speech that the Rocky Balboa character delivers to his son in "Rocky V". That's how winning is done! It was beautiful. And, then just three years ago, this time I had founded a wonderful company called eCircle with a gentleman, and he was the co-host of my podcast. And he called me and said, "I don't want to discuss it, "but I'm leaving eCircle and the podcast." And I was like, "Oh," and he said, "I don't want to discuss it, "I just want to let you know, okay? "We can talk about it later." And he hung up. And I'll tell you, man, I went into a mild state of shock. I was depressed for a while. The company was something we'd started together. Really a big chunk of the vision was his. And it was, it was stunning that he didn't want to be a part of it anymore. And yet, you know, when I look back on it it made total sense and I ended up buying him out and now the company's mine. But I'll tell you for a good year, a year and a bit, we were in crisis mode trying to make sure that the company survived and we were able to continue to do the things that we do. So to me, leadership through crisis is a very real thing that I have tangible life experience in. And I can tell you, it's not easy. It will never be easy, but it's a sign of who you are and what your passion for life is. And your vision for making a difference is, as to how you deal with this. If you're somebody who's just gonna, curl up in the fetal position and start crying and sucking your thumb, then you're probably not going to be very effective in leading through crisis. But if you're somebody who will take a hit and maybe needs a bit of time to recover from it but will recover from it, will get back up, will do what needs to be done, then you're going to be somebody who is going to be able to not only lead yourself, but lead others through this crisis. And that's very, very important.
- I love that you made that distinction of leading yourself and leading others through crisis because it is different, right? Leading yourself, that resiliency, that getting back up, that allowing yourself to be in shock. You mentioned shock, but then still giving yourself the space to recover is a very particular skillset that is different than leading others through crisis. And I think, or change, like call change, right? Any change is a form of crisis for someone so---
- A hundred percent. Well said.
- How we do, how we lead ourselves and the ability to lead ourselves is different than how we lead other people and the ability to lead other people and not everyone can do both particularly effectively.
- Mm mm mm. Very, very true.
- I'm curious because you've been in a position where you have had to be resilient and lead yourself and had to lead other people as well. What you've, what some of your takeaways from that are, whether it's, here's what I learned about me leading myself or here's what I learned about leading other people that I think would be valuable to note for people, in a similar position right now?
- That's a wonderful question. It's a very perceptive and insightful question because, for me to be able to lead myself, I have to be somebody who's open to growth. So one of my sayings, this is a Nicky Billou original thought leadership quote is, you're here for just a few reasons. To live, to love, to grow and to contribute. Live, love, grow, and contribute. So, living is easy. Almost everyone does it, right?
- Kind of a default.
- Yeah. Loving, not so much. Not everybody does that. Some people have been hurt in one way or another. So they close themselves off to love. And I don't just mean romantic love. I mean, love in the macro sense, of love in any relationship, love of life. Love of, love of going through this journey. You know, so not everyone loves but I believe that's a big reason why we're here. To experience love and to give love. And it's an incredible thing to really understand that and live that way. And to grow. So to grow, you need to be someone who is seeking growth and I've always been a seeker. Ken Keasy said that to go through this life and achieve enlightenment you need to be a seeker of enlightenment. And I like to think of myself as a seeker. So if you want to lead yourself through crisis, through change, through losing 10 pounds, through adding $50,000 to your annual income or $250,000 to your annual income, through becoming the kind of person that attracts the partner of your dreams, you got to grow. It won't happen. The person you are today is not sufficient for the person who's going to achieve those goals. Albert Einstein said that the state of mind which created the problem that you're in is insufficient to solve that same problem. So you gotta grow and you gotta be someone who's into growth. So I'm really into growth. I read like a theme. I read, I finished my 120 second book of the year. Okay? 122 books. I'm on Goodreads. You're going to join me on good reads, right? So we can share books together. You got to do it Céline. And anybody listening to this podcast needs to go on Goodreads, sign up for the challenge, the annual challenge and write your books in there and share stuff about books because books make you grow, people make you grow and who you hang around really matters. Charlie "Tremendous" Jones said, "You're going to be the same person five years from now, "as you are today except for the people you hang around, "the books you read." So you need to hang around good people, the right people. You need to be very, very careful about who you allow into your sphere. You know, because sure you may work with some people, and if they're not your cup of tea, you still got to work with them but who you allow into your inner circle, that's important. And to me, those are the things that I do is I read a lot. I hang around the right people. I take courses. I mean, right now I'm reviewing Matt Church's Thought Leaders Business School program, which is not part of what I teach. But I decided I need to review this course and not just review it, I've got something to share. I never completed the whole course. I went through a big chunk of it but never completed it. Three times, I got to a certain point and stopped. And this time I promised myself, I'm going to complete the whole course. And I know enough about the material that I'm able to teach the material and really mix it with my own material. But I'm going to go through the whole course. And if you're someone in business, and right now we're in what I would argue is a crisis point, an inflection point. We've had a pandemic, we've had restrictions, lock downs and thankfully there's brave free people out there that are standing up against some of that. Because I think today those are not warranted the way they were back in March. That's for darn sure. And we've also got, in the United States, a never ending election with very serious allegations of fraud in the presidential election. I mean, as of today, the State of Pennsylvania has decided that there's enough evidence to go through and they're looking at irregularities. So buckle up. 'Cause we don't know what's going to happen down there. And that's a crisis. This is the world's leading democracy. And it's in crisis because half the population feels the election wasn't free and fair. That's not a good thing for the world. So, to me, because we're faced with all of this, I, on a daily basis, need to lead myself. I need to grow. I need to read. So this morning I was up at 4:30 and I started to read and finished. So I finished reading this book. This is James Allen, who wrote "As a Man Thinketh", right? "The Way Of Peace". So I finished reading James Allen's book and, I'm reading another book about tycoons from the 19th century. People like John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie and Jay Gould, and JP Morgan, the people who created the modern economy of the world, not just America. And man it's really cool and fascinating to read about these flawed yet great men. And they were really flawed, every single one of them except maybe Rockefeller. He wasn't that flawed. He was a pretty upright guy, but the other three, whoo! They were flawed, flawed dudes. Men who would like, you shake hands with them, you better check your fingers, they might not all be there. But they also had genuine greatness in them. So there's something to learn. And right now we're going through all of this craziness. Every single one of us needs to be thinking growth. You need to be reading books, taking courses, hanging around people that sharpen us. I had the privilege of being on Ryan Michler's Order of Man podcast. He's a man who's created a movement for men to help men be better. It's called, it's about reclaiming and restoring masculinity. And he's got millions of people that listen to that podcast. And I had the privilege of being on that show this week. And I'll tell you, I did something pretty crazy. I shared my views and it's a good, far reaching podcast and I highly recommend you listen to it. I think about half of Ryan's listeners are women. So it's pretty cool. And, one thing I did on that podcast is I offered to do a call. I offered to give a complimentary call to anybody who will listen to that show who wanted to talk business, who wanted to talk relationships, who wanted to talk about a marriage breaking up 'cause I've gone through that or they just needed, they just needed somebody to talk to or shoot the breeze with. And he's got millions of listeners, that could have overwhelmed me really, really quickly. But the truth of the matter is so far under 10 people have taken me up on it, you know? But me hanging around with them will make me better. Iron sharpens iron. Me having this conversation with you makes me better. I feel like I'm a smarter person after I get to spend some time with Céline Williams because you ask bright perceptive questions. You force me to think more deeply about things and let's face it, on my own, doing things the way I usually do, and I'm used to, I get lazy. That's why I need people. That's why growth is important. And then the last point about contribution Céline, contribution matters so much. Like if we're not here to give to other people, why the heck are we here?
- Yeah.
- Why? Right? Like every business person needs to understand, you're here to contribute. Whether you're an employee at a company, you're contributing your expertise, your time, your caring. You're the owner of the company, you're contributing your love and your caring for what you do for making a difference for your employees and for your customers. You gotta be all about the contribution. And if you're doing all that, you're going to grow as a person and you become bigger than your problems. And a crisis is just a problem. And if you become bigger than the crisis of the moment and the crisis of the moment right now is 2020, pandemic slash lockdown slash restriction slash, never ending election, slash crazy media lying to us all the time. I'm sorry. Did I say that out loud? But it's true. They are lying to us all the time. You know, you've got to be somebody who's like, I'm going to work on me so much that I'm going to be bigger than this. And if I'm bigger than this, I can lead myself out of this. Then you have earned the right to lead somebody else out of this. Until you can lead yourself out of this, you haven't got the right to say you're going to leave anybody else out of anything.
- I think that's a really important point to emphasize because I think a lot of times leaders get, and I mean leaders who are in organizations or leading teams when they're entrepreneurs, but they are in the specific position of people work for them in some way, right? So I firmly believe that leaders can be at any level. And I'm talking specifically about people who are leading people. I think a lot of times the default is to see, to want to solve the problem for another person without actually doing the work for themselves first. So they default into, how can I help my team? How can I help the organization? How can I help the people around me? And part of that is because they haven't or can't or don't know how to do the work for themselves. And they, that, what you said about growth specifically is really important. Growth is uncomfortable. It doesn't, it's not a comfortable space to be in. And growth is not necessarily meant to be this easy, comfortable. Like this is just... So it's a lot harder to lean into your own growth than it is to go, "Oh, maybe I can help someone else "with what they're going through "because that way I don't have to deal with my stuff."
- Well, you know, that's so true. And I want to, I want to add to what you're saying here. What you're saying is bang on. And there's nothing I could say that would detract from that in any way, because you're right. But I also think a lot of people are afraid to ask for help from experts and thought leaders like you and I. By the way, you must listen to my episode this week with David Meerman Scott. His definition of thought leadership is so elegant. He says that an expert is like a cover band but a thought leader plays original music.
- Oh, I like that. That's good. Yeah.
- Isn't it good? So David Meerman Scott. So go to the Thought Leader Revolution, listen to it. He wrote this new book, "Fanocracy". And then he wrote another book called "Marketing Secrets From The Grateful Dead". "Marketing Lessons From The Grateful Dead". So really, really cool guy. But, the people who listen to this podcast need to reach out and work with people like me and you. I don't do a ton of one-on-one coaching anymore but there is an area that I'm passionate. I am going to launch a new cluster. Remember we talked about clusters last time we spoke?
- Yup.
- In the thought leadership methodology. So one of my clusters is, I want to work with kind of alpha male masculine executives who, and my method was going to be one-on-one coaching with them. And my message is going to be really straightforward. If you're an alpha male man, you live in a new world right now and you need to find a way to still be an alpha male man and perform and do great things but also do it in such a way that, you're not stepping on people who are not that. And you're not, you're not, you're not making people feel like, you're a bull in a China shop 'cause I'm a bull in a China shop and I'm never going to stop being a bull in a China shop. But sometimes being a bull in a China shop in a corporate environment, doesn't really work. You need to find a way to be a meandering bull rather than than a hard charging bull or a bull that takes slow steps and still knocks the China over. But doesn't just crush and just scare everybody. And to me, helping that man not feel less than because the world is calling men like that toxic, masculine. And I got to tell you, I have a real problem with that phrase. I believe that's a sexist anti man phrase that needs to be eradicated from the planet. But you also gotta be as a man, who's an alpha man, you gotta be aware that, you need to be operating with finesse. Still a strength, but finesse. And so people around you are attracted to that strength rather than scared of it. Because I know I can scare people with how I move forward sometimes. And I gotta be aware of that because if I'm not aware of that then I'm just an idiot, you know what I mean? I don't care whether I affect somebody and impact them badly. So for me, for example, if there's some masculine alpha male types in an organization who are like going, "You know what? "I ought to be getting to the next level "but I need to refine how I operate a little bit." I want to help those guys. Because they'll know I got their backs. I'm not trying to change them or tell them they're bad and wrong because there's too much of that going on. But they'll also know that, "Hey, you know what? "The way I'm operating ain't working. "So I better learn what's not working." So that's an example of being able to help a certain group of folks. And I know you do that with some of the groups you work with inside of your work. And I think anyone listening to this podcast, who's going through these challenging times. If you're a really high level leader then you need someone to lead you perhaps. You need a Céline Williams, a Nicky Billou to lead you because if you are trying to lead other people and you're not working on yourself, that's going to be a dumpster fire of epic proportions sooner, rather than later.
- I, there are so many leaders that feel like they have to, well, first of all, they feel very lonely. That's a real thing. I hear it all the time. I'm sure you do as well. They're lonely, they don't feel like, that people understand them. They don't know who to turn to. It's a very isolating experience to be a leader, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're a business owner, whether you're leading a 5,000 person organization, it is a very isolating experience. And, it's, you combine that with the emphasis in our culture that you have to do everything on your own, right? And, you can, listen, I'm super independent. I believe firmly that we can solve things on our own and we don't have to. And that's the thing, right? Is when you combine, this is really isolating with the mindset that I have to figure it out on my own. And I can only rely on myself. And this is the thing. Then you don't reach out for help. Then you don't have that support system. Then you don't, then you really put yourself into that spin cycle of doing this on my own, feeling on my own, doing this on my own, feeling on my own all the time. And what I think is really valuable, and what you're saying is it doesn't have to be that way.
- No, it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, I have another phrase. Another Nicky Billou saying. It's called hashtag don't do, insert the year, alone. So don't do the rest of 2020 alone. Don't do 2021 alone. Ken Blanchard, who I had the privilege of interviewing on my podcast said, "None of us is as smart or as strong as all of us." Why would you do things alone? It's a terrible idea. Terrible idea. No matter how good you are, no matter how well you think you can operate without any help, you will operate so much better with help.
- Yeah. And it's funny because I think when crisis happens, we double down into, I have to do this on my own as opposed to looking at who can I reach out to? Where can I get help from? Who can walk through this with me?
- So brilliantly said. So brilliantly said. The most important thing that we need to understand as human beings is that we're social creatures. We're designed to be with each other. We're designed to learn from each other, to give to each other, to be able to operate together. And if we all work together toward a common purpose, we can make miracles happen. You know, Margaret Mead said that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has. And I'm here to say to you, if you're in a crisis right now and you are in a crisis right now, and if you're feeling lonely and if you're feeling like it's not happening for you, then I have to say this first and foremost. Learn to lead yourself. If you're unable to lead yourself, reach out to the Céline Williams's of the world and get help. Because if you don't do that, you're going to be lost. You're going to be lost, lost, lost. You may present a mask of strength and power and got it all figured out to the world but inside, you know that's not true. And you don't want to keep feeling like it's not true. You want to feel like, "Hey, I have what it takes. "I've got brothers and sisters "that are in a band together with me "and allow me to live life as the best version of myself. "Allow me to get through crisis and move forward, "powerfully to victory."
- So, inside of what you're saying, the first, the word that keeps coming to mind as you're talking is this idea of community, right? How important community is. However each person defines it. And for you personally, Nicky, how important has community been for you and how have you curated the community that you have?
- Oh my God, without community I wouldn't even be here. When my marriage broke up without being in community, I would have sunk into an abyss, out of which I'd never have come out. You know, it was the men around me that helped me come out. And some of the women around me. In fact, a good friend of mine, Linda Robinson, she and my mother were the only people who are still standing with me to try and help me salvage my marriage. Nobody else did. I'll tell you that. Just those two, they fought for my family and I will forever be grateful to both my mom and to Linda for that. And then Linda found me Owen Williams, who is probably the number one relationship expert in the world. And it's so interesting. God has such a sense of humor. He made, when Tiger Woods was at the top of his game, they used to say, "The best golfer in the world is black." And you know, white guys sport. All the white guys sport. And then, when Eminem was at the top of his game, they said, "Hey, the best rapper in the world is white." White guy in a black guy field, you know? It was too funny. And Owen Williams, the best heterosexual relationship guy in the world is gay. And he is by far the best. And Owen brought me into a men's group. And I remember just so angry, and then one day I just lost it. I just broke down and cried and all the men just put their arms around me. And then Owen said, "Sit down." And he sat behind me and he wrapped his arms around my chest and just held me while I cried for a good 30 minutes. You know, without that community, I can't even tell you where I'd be right now. Because of those men and the women who stood for me, I got to go through one of the darkest periods of my life and come out on the other side. So I say every human being needs a community. So I curated that through asking for help. And then inside my business, I have a community of thought leaders that I've curated, all of whom are heart leaders too, and wanting to change the world and at various levels in their success, and all of these people are wonderful people. And I want to help them win. And I kick their butts a little bit to make them do the things they don't want to do that they should be doing but they're too smart to do it because they're thought leaders, of course but that's why they need someone like me to say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. "What you think you need to do, not so much. "You can keep doing it on the side "but this is what you really need to do." And that's another thing I do. And then, I have dear friends that I've very specifically curated and continue to work with and spend time with because they make me a better person.
- I love that you've curated community in three very distinct ways, right? You've curated community in terms of support for yourself, you've curated community in your own business. So you are not only receiving of community support, you are providing community support. And then you've curated it in a very specific way, in a more friendship, informal way as well. And I think that that is, I think the fact that it's very intentional. I mean, I see intentionality in it, but the fact that it seems very intentional in all three is very reflective of the type of leader that you are and how you do lead yourself and other people. And I, it's, I think too often people will focus on one or the other, right? Like I've worked with executives that they are really good at working on the culture of their organization. So they curate that community at work every single day. And until we start working together, they have never had support for themselves. And they have dropped all of their family. I'm pointing off screen here. But like all their family and friend obligations outside of their immediate family, that's like way down on the list of priorities. They're not doing the things that they love. They're not spending that time. And I think it says a lot that you have three very distinct buckets that you're filling up all the time to be able to give from a full bucket.
- Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for noticing. That's good.
- I mean, I think it's important to call things like that out for other people to, because I hear it, doesn't mean other people do necessarily, but that reflection allows other people to reflect for themselves to say, "Oh, hold on. "I don't have those"
- Well said. Well said.
- So I want to, you talked about your business and this idea of thought leadership. And I want to touch on that a little bit because, I think now, 2020, pandemic, crazy times that we're living in still, 2020's the never ending year.
- The never ending year. Yup.
- But I think now, we are really seeing, first of all we're seeing a lot of people step into thought leadership roles as a result of 2020. And I think there's a lot of people thinking about the possibility inside. I have people inside organizations that are like, "Hey I want to become better at this or step into this "or I've decided I want to do this thing on the side." And they're thinking about stepping into that space of thought leadership because they are feeling called to do something more, something bigger. So it's interesting 'cause this, I talk about leading through crisis and I also think that crisis can push people into leadership which is a really interesting sort of parallel. For those people who are maybe thinking about stepping into that leadership, that thought leadership, where could they start? What advice would you give them? What are your, you're an expert in thought leadership. So, what would you share with those people?
- That's a great question. You're full of great questions. Hey Céline, you just rock with the questions there. So, the first thing I'd have them do honestly is I'd have him start listening to my podcast on thought leadership which is the Thought Leader Revolution. There's so many brilliant people there. Much more brilliant than I am, who have a lot of smart things to say about the subject and about how they've created their own thought leadership. The stories are amazing. So go to thethoughtleaderrevolution.com or go to Apple, Stitcher. You know, all the platforms that usually podcasts are on and check it out because if you do that, I think you're going to be in a really, really, excuse me, good space, in terms of starting to understand what thought leadership is and what it can do. And then another resource I have is my book. My book's called "The Thought Leader's Journey". This is one of the few books ever written. And you can order this from Amazon if you like the hard copy book, you can also order the Kindle version but you can get the Kindle version for free from my website by going to ecircleacademy.com/tljbook. That's "Thought Leader's Journey" book. So /tljbook. ecircleacademy.com/tljbook. So these are some free resources that can get you to start thinking about thought leadership. And I think they're a good place to start. But, if you really want to be a thought leader and you want to explore it, the first thing you got to understand is that you have lived a unique life. And because of the type of life that you've lived, you have acquired certain experiences. And these experiences have given you skills. Whether those skills are something that you are consciously aware of or not, you have acquired these skills and there's people all around you who will tell you, "Hey, you're really good at X." And I'll give you an example from myself. So a few years back, I was heavily involved in a men's organization. And I used to set up what we called Fire Nights, which are introductions to a course that was a prerequisite for joining our organization. And the Fire Nights were held outside around the fire. So it was pretty cool, manly stuff. And rain or shine, winter or summer, we'd always do it. And I was really good at getting people to come out to Fire Nights. And once they came out to Fire Nights, I was really good at getting them to go, "Yeah, I should sign up for this." In fact, I did more than any other man did over a seven or eight year period. So people would come to me and they'd say, "Hey you're really good at enrollment." And I'm like, "What are you talking about? "I'm average at best?" And then they'd go, "No, no, no, you're not average. "You are really, really, really good at enrollment." I'm like, "No, I'm not. No, I'm really not. "I mess up a lot." And then they would just give up. But man after man after man would come and tell me this. And then my sweet better half Theresa would go, "You know, you're really good at enrollment." I'm like, "What?" Like not believing it, right? But other people saw what I couldn't see about my skillset. Does this make sense Céline?
- Yes.
- I will just, and listen, I'm a thought leader. I'm a man who reads a lot of books. I do a lot of courses. I have four bloody coaches I pay, you know what I mean? I'm part of a men's group. I'm not exactly an unaware man. You know what I mean? I am a guy who looks at himself. So I will just put this out there to you as an example. You're a thought leader. You're a woman who probably has people around her to get feedback from. You're a woman who reads a lot, thinks a lot, does a lot. You haven't got a clue what your real expertise is. You really don't. You just, you think you do, but you don't. And when you're in a community, for example, with other thought leaders, which, like the one that we have, and you start to go through this and you spend a bit of time and even if it's over a Zoom and they start to hear you speak, they're going to say, "Céline, did you know you're good at blah, blah, blah?" "Blah, blah, blah? "No. I'm not going to blah, blah, blah. "I'm good at B B B." "No, no, no, no sCéline. You're good at blah, blah, blah." "No, no, no. It's B B B." And then the fifth or the 10th or the 30th person will go, "You know, Céline, you're really good at blah, blah, blah." And you'll go, "Could it be true "that I'm actually really good at blah, blah, blah?" And then once you figured out that, "Oh, that's what I'm really good at." And you start to create some thought leadership around it, instead of just simply thinking, "No, no, no I really know what I'm good at." And you start to do this hard work of creating these types of pieces of intellectual property, which, this thing looks like it took me five minutes, but trust me it didn't. Then you're going to go, "Okay. "I now understand what I'm really all about. "What I'm really all about "is based on all these experiences I've had." So one of the things that I'm really good at besides enrollment, that I found out is I'm a beast when it comes to holding people accountable. Like I am a beast because I'm pretty good at holding myself accountable but honestly you will never meet another human being on the planet, inside the realm of thought leadership who does accountability better than me. And if there is, accountability is some you're struggling with, or your organization is struggling with, you need to call me 'cause I'll get that handled for you, lickety split. And I never thought about it that way. I thought I had just, I just like to push. I like to get things done, but no it's accountability. And that can be a brilliant piece of thought leadership that can be commercial inside of an organization. I can think of a group of people that I really want to help and say, "I want to help these folks with accountability." And if I do that, I can make a lot of money, for sure. I could help some good people who really could use it. And I could establish myself with a legacy of having been a thought leader in this space. So if there's someone who's listening to this and they want to be a thought leader, it really depends on where they're at in their current evolution. So if they work for a company and they want to continue to work for a company, there's being a thought leader within a company which is one conversation to have. But if they work for a company and they want to go and start their own practice, that's a different conversation to have. And if they already have a practice or if they're a CEO like an Elon Musk or a Steve Jobs or Donald Trump, before he ran for president or Richard Branson, all those people were thought leaders, right? All those people had an expertise. And there were people who knew them for that expertise. Love him or hate him, right? Like Steve Jobs was a guy who was known for helping people who had big dreams go out there and make it happen. And everybody like was attracted to that. Steve Jobs had his detractors. You know, he apparently wasn't the world's nicest boss but that's what he was known for. And he attracted customers to Apple. He attracted employees, a lineup of people who wanted to work for Apple. Even at a third of the money they were making elsewhere. And he attracted investors. I was an Apple investor. Same with Elon Musk. Elon Musk fired his executive assistant of over 20 years. Fired her because he said, "I don't think she's all that valuable." And I thought to myself, "Elon, you're a prick." Excuse my language. "How could you do this to a woman "who has dedicated herself to you for 20 years?" And there's a lot of other people that say, "Like Elon doesn't have that all empathy gene going on "really, really well." But man, Elon Musk has a big vision. His vision is he wants to end the use of fossil fuels in transportation. And he's created a company that has buyers who love the mission. He's attracted employees who love the mission. He's attracted investors who think, "Man this guy is onto something," like me. You know, my Tesla shares are up almost 1000%. Like, thank you Elon for that. Even though you're a jerk to your assistant but thank you for the shares going that way. And then Donald Trump. Look before that man ran for president, he was known as Mr. Brander, Mr. Marketer. He put the Trump name on things and luxury defined. And he was the tell it to you straight guy. And that brand of his went from just buildings to ties, to steaks, to all kinds of things. He went, his father was rich already. So that family was worth $200 million. But I know a lot of rich kids, sons and daughters, believe me, most of them don't go out there and take those millions and a hundred fold it like Donald Trump did. So that's something that you gotta go, "Man that guy, he's got something going on over there." And Richard Branson, man, he's the coolest cat of them all. He jumps out of airplanes. Helium balloon pilots, helium balloons. He does speaking engagements. Before the pandemic, he had Necker Island with those retreats that he ran and he made nine, $10 million. That's not a lot of money, but I think it's almost enough to live off of, right? And then it helped him sell about a billion or two worth of Virgin products and services around the world. So thought leadership is about all of those things. And the first step is, listen to my podcast, read my book. The second step is, start thinking about these things, about what your expertise could be and if you're really serious about it, jump on a phone call with me and we'll talk about how it might work for you.
- And I do want to know for anyone who's listening or watching that I will, there will be a link to your website of where they can contact you to do exactly that. Because I think, whether you are working inside an organization, whether you are running a business, whether you are thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, thinking about it from the lens of becoming a thought leader because there's an opportunity, to your point, maybe different inside an organization, but there's still an opportunity to be a thought leader wherever you're at. And I think that it's valuable to recognize that and note that so that people do reach out. They don't think, "Oh yeah, I'm not. "I mean, I'm not running Tesla. "So why would I reach out to Nicky? "Or why would I really think "about thought leadership, right?" And the idea is, like, you don't have to be running Tesla to be a thought leader.
- No you don't. You know, and if you become a thought leader and you're an employee in a company, you will become 10 times as valuable to that company as you are today. IBM, a few years back decided they wanted to be a company of thought leaders. And I thought that was pretty far sighted on their part. And any organization that is wanting to find a way to differentiate themselves and stand out these days, having a company of thought leaders, as part of your branding is really fantastic.
- Well, and I think, I could not agree more. And I think the opportunities for people to stand out from organizations is going to continue to grow as the future of work evolves. It is no longer, no offense to Elon, I'm going to pick on Elon Musk for a second. It's no longer Elon Musk is the only face of Tesla. And he's the only person out there speaking. It is now people at various levels of organizations that are known for something, are the face of that thing. There's, if you've watched "The Social Dilemma", the gentleman who features highly in it Tristan, and I can't remember his last name right now but he was running ethics at Facebook. And he was a thought leader inside of Facebook for that, and then left Facebook. And now has the Center for Humane Technology, I believe is what it's called and featured in "The Social Dilemma" and all these things because he used the thought leadership he was able to lean into at Facebook to accelerate to the next level and that is, the future of work is going to look like that.
- I agree with you. And just as an aside, Facebook has a lot of work to do to get itself back into the good graces of the world. I think, I don't know why this fellow left, but I've heard that they've hired people on their scientific staff who are experts at censoring algorithms. And I hope that's not true, but that's not a good thing if that's what they're doing. But I'll tell you this. Anybody today who is interested in bettering their own career would benefit from thinking like a thought leader, in operating like a thought leader rather than a run of the mill employee. 'Cause that's not going to be something that's going to allow you to continue to be valuable going forward. People are interested in having people be part of their teams who are growing, evolving, and continuing to find new and innovative ways to add value. And that's very important. Thought leadership will allow you to do that better than anything.
- Could not agree with you more. I think that's, I want to, I think that's a great place to end things. And I also want to give you the opportunity if there's anything that you, we didn't get to or that you want to sort of emphasize before this wraps up, I want to give you the opportunity to do that for the audience.
- I'll just wrap up by saying, you gotta lead yourself first. And if you feel like you're not able to lead yourself and you need help, you got to reach out to Céline and ask her for help. So that's the first thing I'd say. And the second thing I'd say is once you've understood how to lead yourself and you've gotten the help to lead you, especially if you're senior leader in a corporation, you don't have someone that you report to. Then you got, you have an obligation to start leading the people that work for you and helping them, empowering them to lead the people that work for them and so on and so forth. Because we are in a crisis point. I think leading through crisis isn't just an interesting topic. It's, I hate to call it the new normal but it really is the new normal right now. It's really, really important for people to think that way and operate that way in my opinion. And last but not least, remember that you live in a free society and that we get to operate in a free enterprise economy which is about voluntary exchange. And it's a lot better to maintain a free society that's about voluntary exchange, than move into another type of society, which is about coercion and doing things at the barrel of a gun. So please value your freedom. Please be somebody who stands up for your freedom. And please educate yourself about what the difference between, free enterprise economies and command economies are. Whether you're an employee, whether you're a CEO, you need to understand the difference and you need to understand why a free enterprise economy is the most moral and noble one in the world. And I will really want to encourage you. We need to make sure that the people that work with us understand this too because that's the only way we're going to keep a free society. President Ronald Reagan said this, and I believe he's so right. And I say this is as a man who comes from a country that lives under a tyrannical dictatorship. We came here to get away from that. And Ronald Reagan said, "Freedom is never more "than one generation away from extinction. "It cannot," extinction, excuse me. "It cannot be passed through the bloodstream "and it is not passed through the bloodstream. "It must be prized. It must be cherished. "It must be treasured. "It must be if necessary, fought, bled and died for." And that's where I want to end.
- Thank you Nicky. I appreciate you. And I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me today.
- Thank you so much Céline. God bless you. Thanks for having me on.
- Absolutely. Thanks for joining me today on the Leading Through Crisis podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation please take a minute to rate and review it in your podcast app. And you can always learn more about any of our guests at www.leadingthroughcrisis.com.