Crisis provides opportunity. My conversation with Mike Shoreman is a perfect case-in-point. We talk about how he struggled with illness, identity, and mental health, how he leaned into community, borrowed belief from others, and let the small wins provide momentum.
In this episode, Mike (an author, speaker, advocate, and SUP Man of the Year) asks some really profound questions that will help anyone who finds themselves in a tough spot and might be wondering "what's next?" or "what now?"
He also reminds us that "growth can be a very scary, challenging, uncomfortable thing -- it's meant to be. And, it's a good thing because it sends us in a new direction. It's how we do the amazing things."
Grab a notebook and settle in. This episode is full of wisdom you'll want to jot down and refer back to, again and again.
Also, make sure to check out www.jack.org/thecrossing! On the 22nd, 23rd and 24th of August, Mike intends to become the first person with a disability to cross international waters. He will be traveling (via paddleboard) from Rochester, NY to Toronto, Ontario, challenging stereotypes of differently-abled people, as well as raising money and awareness around mental health.
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To learn more about Mike, you can find him online at http://mikeshoreman.org/.
He is also on Facebook and Instagram (@TheUnbalancedPaddleboarder),
LinkedIn, and Twitter.
His book, Diaries of The Unbalanced Paddleboarder: Crash and RISE, can be purchased in most places books are sold.
- I'm Celine Williams and welcome to the Leading Through Crisis Podcast. A conversation series exploring resiliency and leadership in challenging times.
My guest today is Mike Shoreman, who is an author, speaker, athlete and advocate, and an entrepreneur. Mike, thank you for joining me today.
Thank you for having me. It's nice to connect with you again, Celine.
Absolutely, I'm very grateful that we get to have multiple conversations on multiple platforms in multiple ways. This is what it's all about.
Very exciting,
So you know, I always start with this question, it's like, I feel like I'm just gonna make it my official first question now, which is, I know it's big and broad, but when you hear the name of this podcast which is Leading Through Crisis. And when you hear the concept or hear that language Leading Through Crisis, I'm curious what that means to you or what comes up for you inside of that?
So I think for me, when I hear that question what comes up is, is stepping up and being the face of change. Doing the things that are seemingly impossible or insurmountable and showing others that they can do the same and encouraging others to do so.
I love that stepping up was where you started. I think that's really powerful. And I think that it's really relevant because it does start with us, right? Like it starts with us stepping up.
It does, now we have to make decisions as entrepreneurs, as business people, as leaders to either follow the pack or to do the big thing. And sometimes that can be really scary and it can be daunting and it can be stressful. But you know, when we're put into crisis situation, you know, we're all going through something right now, you know, with this pandemic. And it's created opportunity for leaders to really come out and be noticed. So you know, through crisis there's always opportunity, and you can either take it and you can run with it, or you can be left behind and not be one of those leaders anymore.
Well, and that's kind of what's so great about the idea of stepping up is that like, if a leader, if you as an individual and everyone is a leader, like I feel like I repeat this all the time, but we are all leaders. We all have influence, we can all exert it in positive ways or not. But when we step into that and we acknowledge that, like there is something we can do and there will be opportunity, even if we don't know what it is right now, because it's not about certainty, right? And we often get, we really want certainty so we think that's what it's about, but it's not. But there will be opportunity we don't know what it is necessarily, but what is the step we can take? How can we step into it? That's a really powerful place to come from.
Now, of course, now with my experience, you know, I went from being a coach in sport, a professional stand-up paddleboarding coach to losing my mobility. And you know, my face collapsed and I lost my business and I've lost, you know, relationships and my independence. And for a long time I was building a road that I didn't know where it was going, and I didn't know what would be there on the other side of it. And you know, here I am, you know, almost two years later stepping into it now, which is exciting. And that has come through really with what we're going through with this pandemic. It's created an opportunity for that.
So I'm curious if you're willing to share a little bit about, of your story with us. Because even in what you've just said, those, you know, a professional athlete, professional coach, you know, to now losing your independence, losing relationships, losing your business. Can you tell us, because that is to me, it sounds like a series of crises, not just a single crisis, but you actually experienced a series of crises and clearly were able to lead yourself, whatever you wanna call it through that situation. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your experience, 'cause I think often when we tell our stories it's when people can connect and learn cause it's not only theoretical.
So I think at the core of what happens, you know, I got very sick and I lost my mobility. And essentially, you know, I was a first-time business owner. I didn't have my systems in place like I should have, which would have kept the business. And ultimately I lost it. And there have been lessons learned from that, as I now pivoted into a role as an author, speaker, entrepreneur. But when it all happened, you know, at the core of it there was an identity crisis because my identity was held in what I did, and it was blown apart. And it ultimately led to me having a mental health breakdown. So you know, after months and months of grief and anger and sadness, I sought mental health treatment. And that really opened the door to what I do now. You know, I'm a poet, I'm a columnist with the Toronto Sun. With Sun News Media outlets side, I write about mental health, I speak about mental health. It helps me pivot into an new career which I didn't see coming. But you know, ultimately, like I didn't believe in myself because the confidence was taken away. But there was a little bit there from the initial wins that I was getting that allowed me to believe in other people's belief in me. So I latched onto that and I took it and here we are.
So there's two things in there that I think really... Thank you for sharing that. There's two things in there that I think are really powerful that I wanted to touch on. And the first one is this idea of losing your identity of who you are, that identity, that's an identity crisis, right? So I think that's really powerful, I wanna talk about that. And the other thing I wanna touch on is that idea of confidence. And so I'm gonna start with the identity crisis. I was just gonna call out the two things I wanna talk about so I don't forget them.
Let's do it.
Now we do it. So I think that identity, I don't think we often talk about the crisis that comes when we lose our identity in some way. And it comes in different ways. Like I've spoken about this with clients and friends, maybe not here, but both of my parents are dead. And when you lose the identity of being someone's child because those people don't exist. It's a weird identity shift. 'Cause like, sure, I had parents, but I don't belong to anyone anymore, right? So there's that, it's not the same thing, but it is, like I appreciate yours was much more dramatic but-
Don't discount about that.
I appreciate that, but it is a shift of like, oh, I've lost that identity in some way because that just isn't real. And I wanna talk about your experience of that identity crisis and how you navigated through it. Because I think we all do it differently when we experience something like that. And I don't hear that spoken about a lot, right? I don't hear us talk about the reality of when we have a crisis of identity, how we navigate it and what that looks like. 'Cause it's, my experience was that it is messy in many ways and there's another side to it. And it's also a process, it's always ongoing.
Yeah, no, no, I remember, you know, looking in the mirror and I couldn't recognize, like my face was sunken in, it had collapsed on the one side. I could barely walk. I was being sent for MRIs to rule out brain damage. You know, people were telling me you're never gonna be on the water coaching paddleboarding ever again. You know, I was having conversations about, you know, announcing to my network, you know, the business is done. It was very difficult. And what saved me in the end was, you know, reaching out to other leaders who had also been through what I was experiencing. So you know, I reached out to influencers who are also entrepreneurs, who are also in fitness. Tony Horton, the founder of P90X, he became my mentor. I contacted him and we developed this relationship and friendship and he helps me through that. I think it's very hard to go through something on your own and figure everything out. One, it's gonna be exhausting. And two, you know, when you're in a place where you're already feeling extremely defeated, it's not a good place to be. So I reached, I contacted people who were influential, you know, I set up a series of mentorships in that time. And also with an identity crisis, you know, I saw quite a bit of mental health treatment. You know, I had a therapist, I had a mental health support worker. Also I felt like I was having double therapy at the time which was a lot, but I think actually entrepreneurs could have double therapy all the time. There's a lot that comes up for us. But no, it took a long time, it took about eight months to really come out of that mental place of feeling the loss and realizing, you know, with the encouragement of others that this isn't the end of the road. And then now, you know, there could be a pivot and a shift into a new profession that actually could be, you know, much more liquid, much more satisfying. You know, just different, but just as good.
So I love that part of your process of working through like a crisis of identity of who you are, was actually leaning on a community and reaching out to people around you. And I think that's really important emphasize cause I think that we, listen, I am a person who is... My default is that I can figure anything out and I'm very independent and I'm going to sort it out on my own and that's not always possible. And having a community and a support system matters. And I think it's sometimes counterintuitive for people to think, oh, when I'm going through my own thing, it's an identity crisis, you know, whatever that is, or I'm not sure who I am, we tend to go very internal and not external. And I love that you, and I'm not saying you didn't go internal as well, but I love that you are also very intentionally looking outside yourself.
Yeah. I know. I think there is a huge power in community. I gave a really big talk on the power of community and what that can do for a person. You know, last year, it was with speaker Slam and what it can do for a person. And also what it does for the communities themselves. You know, it might be very difficult for people experiencing something like this to reach out and to contact these people. But at the end of the day, people want to feel like they are helping and there's no harm in contacting and saying, you know, I'm going through this, you've experienced this, you know, what can you tell me, what can you guide me with? Thank you, I'd be so appreciative. And it really does make a huge difference.
I think more often our egos get so caught up in, if I don't get an answer or someone says no, there's something wrong with me. As opposed to just saying like, you know, setting the expectation that you're gonna reach out to people. And some people are just not gonna answer. They may not see it. You might get a no, but that doesn't matter because the more people you reach out to, the more nos you get, the more yeses you're also going to get.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And that's a hard thing for our, you know, egos to wrap their little minds around.
Yeah, yeah, I know. So it's a segue into the confidence.
Yeah.
So right now I am like, you know what I'm doing, but I don't think your audience know.
No tell us. Tell them, tell me again.
So this summer, you know, because of where I went I became a mental health advocate and an ambassador for Canada's number one youth mental health program. And you know, I did an events to raise money for them last year and I raised several thousand dollars. But there was a huge dip in every organization across, I went around the world last year with, you know, every organization took a huge hit financially. And I thought about it and I thought, well, you know, how can we raise the significant amount of money and attention towards this cause, for Jack.org. And I thought, well, I can become the first person with a disability to cross international waters, from one country to another in a three day event, from the USA to Canada, that would raise a lot of money. Like that would, you know, that's international headlines going towards them. That's media coverage for them. That's, you know, a lot of money. And so part of that is right now, my project for the last few months has been contacting Corporate Canada and asking them to come on board as corporate donors. So I have been contacting, you know, the banks, insurers, the top law firms, the top mining companies, Canada's top favorite brand, even brands that are in Canada that are American brands. Because, you know, if basically what I've presented is a marketing opportunity for businesses to position themselves on the landing page and through marketing of this as mental health leaders. So you know, last week was very exciting, Canadian Tire and Sport Chek came on board. And you know, this week I've got conversations with, you know, Mercedes-Benz and Audi. And I had a conversation with Dofasco this morning who, you know, really in, you know, they said, yeah, for sure son. I think mental health is a huge, you know, it's on trend this year, you know, with what's going on. And companies want to, you know, corporate social responsibility and marketing and all that. But you know, when I was going through what we were just talking about, the confidence to approach these big companies, these big corporations, that wasn't there. And that came with a series of window building that happened throughout the entire process. You know, and now I'm having conversations with the VP of marketing for BMW. But that took a long time, a long time and not a long time at the same time. But you know, I talk about when building and how we do it and you know, we get a small win and then we leverage that within, and it builds confidence. And then we go after a little bit more and a little bit more until one day you're having conversations with Barrick Gold Mining and you know, Gullwing, and WLPLG.
So I love that, and I appreciate what you're saying. I talk with clients all the time about the importance of, we don't get... So we often think that we have to have confidence to start something. And the truth is that you have to build momentum to get confidence. And so we often approach things from the wrong, listen, I don't believe in right or wrong. But we often approach things from the less effective lens of when I have the confidence I will do that thing as opposed to what is the small step I can take today that will build momentum towards the thing knowing that at some point you'll be like, oh, hey, I'm doing it, like I got the confidence to do this thing. And so I love that concept of like building these small wins and creating these small wins cause it is building momentum. That's exactly what you've done to be in the position that you're in. And I love that you took it to where I wanted to go, so thank you Mike for being in my brain, fully appreciate it. But I think that's really important because, especially when we're faced with the unknown and challenging things, we get stuck in, well, I don't know, I don't have the confidence. I don't know what it's gonna be, so we stop doing anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you stop, you know, nothing comes from that. So you know, in my journey, you know, I got back on a board when they said it wasn't possible. That gave me the confidence, you know, just for a few minutes, that gave me the confidence to do it for five minutes, and then for seven. And then I stood up and that gave me the confidence to enter North America's largest inspirational speech competition, Speaker Slam. And then I won that. And then not generated millions of views around the world, and a worldwide movement which led to me becoming the 2021 International Standup Paddleboarding man of the year. And then because of that, I now have a nomination and to be inducted into the Canadian disability hall of fame this year. So now when I'm approaching all of these companies, I basically put the plane on the runway for them to be mental health leaders, because I've kind of presented a marketing opportunity with brand visibility that they would have a hard time turning down. But you know, when I was getting back on the paddle board, you know, I didn't have the confidence to do what I'm doing now. I was just trying not to spin out and get dizzy and fall in the water. You know, when I took the stage at Speaker Slam, I had no idea what that was gonna do. And it's, you know, the little wins kept on adding up and building the momentum as you just said. And here we are doing, you know, having... Here we are having conversations with, you know, VP of marketing for Canadian Tire and, you know, directors of the top companies across Canada. It's, you know, a crazy place to be, but it's all through momentum gained through incremental wins.
Yeah, and imagine what's gonna come next after this. Like-
Oh, I'm gonna run for, I'm gonna run for like premier or something.
Great, I mean, we need to get rid of the one we have right now, so let's, let's, I'm in. So I am... Your journey is so fascinating and there's so many things that, so many places we could go, and I'm really curious. So people who listen to this generally identify in some way as a leader, whether they are officially, they've been given the title of leader in some way or they identify as that. All humans should do this by the way. This is my, got to keep pushing my, everyone's a leader mantra, but I believe that. What advice would you have for leaders as we continue to navigate the different versions of crises and change and challenge that we are facing and that they are facing?
So you know, people watch always. And I think that goes back to, you know, that was before I was an entrepreneur, that was, you know, just, I've always found people fascinating. I always, you know, when I'm in a conference or whether, you know, I'm at a party, I love asking questions. And you know, what people find, people love talking about themselves. So when I'm at a conference or at a party or something, I ask a lot of questions, you know, if there is like a circle and I can scope out. You know, okay, that's so and so from this organization, I know that face. I go to wherever that small crowd is, and I get in there and I ask them questions, and I make it all about them. Because they want, you know, people open up, people wanna talk about themselves. And I study that, I study other leaders and I ask them a lot of questions. And I learned from that. You know, we're always learning. And you know, those who are the best leaders are the ones who continue to learn, always. So I would say, surround yourself in networks, in communities with other leaders and ask questions. Do your homework on, you know, people watch, study, watch their social media, you know, watch what they're doing. And take note of that, because one, it's incredibly inspiring to watch other people grow. And two, you can take bits and pieces of what they're doing and you can apply that to whatever it is you're building.
Yeah. When I used to work with a lot of startups, I would often, you know, and I still mentor startups and it's always, who else is doing this? What can we copy from what they're doing, what can we? And I'm always like, look to what other people are doing and use it to inspire you to do your own thing. So it's not about copying-
Don't copy. You can take bits and pieces that are working, but don't, yeah.
And I wanna be clear, I'm not saying that I fully appreciate that you are not saying copy. I'm just emphasizing the fact that like, inspiration is really important, and looking at what other people are doing and not comparing. 'Cause that's the other thing that we tend to do, is we will look and we-
Comparison. Yes comparison, it's the worst, it's the worst, let's stop doing that, right? But look and go, oh, Mike is doing all these amazing stories. Listen, if you follow Mike on Facebook, Mike is like the Facebook story genius. He's constantly posting stories. So I'm gonna use you as my example, like Mike is doing all these stories. He's sharing this, he's sharing... This is really, this is inspiring, this is exciting. What can I share that might be inspiring to someone else? Like use what you Mike are doing to inspire me to do something that is my own version of what I'm getting from yours. That's really one of the wonderful things about surrounding yourself with people, whether it's social media or real life who are leading in some ways is to find that inspiration and to... And I think what you said is really powerful that like, people who are learning and growing, it's exciting to be around them.
Yeah, no, I, you know, one of your previous guests, Giovanni Marsico, I do my homework, I watch your podcast, I know who you have. You know, he's one of the most inspiring, hardworking, talented, creative individuals I've ever met. I feel very fortunate that, you know, he actually wrote a review and published in my book. You know, I surround myself with the people that inspire me. And you know, I've watch them grow and I learn from them. And I think that's incredibly valuable to build networks, change makers and thought leaders and inspiring individuals and become part of their networks. And no, I very much agree with that.
Yeah, I think it's a powerful thing. The quote that I always say, it's obnoxious cause I use it all the time whenever I'm interviewed, as I always say that I'm more committed to my own growth than I am my own comfort. Like I'm more committed to my growth than I am my own comfort. Because I think that, which is not to say that growth is always uncomfortable, but growth is usually, there's a little bit of discomfort inside of growing and learning. 'Cause if you're doing it effectively, you're questioning and you're unlearning. And that is not a, it's not hard but it's not always a comfortable process.
No, it cannot always be not comfortable, it can be scary. You are questioning everything and you're thinking, okay, like, am I doing this right? Because I've never done it before. No, no, growth can be a very scary, challenging, uncomfortable thing, but it is meant to be that way. And it's a good thing. I think, you know, it pulls us, you know, it sends us in a new direction and that's how we scale and build and grow and do the amazing thing.
Yeah, I could not agree with you more. And it kind of takes me back to when you were talking about, like an identity crisis of who you were in the moment, that's a huge, it's a huge growth opportunity. And it is all of those things, right? It is all of those, you questioning who am I, and what actually matters to me and what am I capable of, and what does this mean? And all of that is that scary, uncomfortable, but full of opportunity plays. Yeah, of course it stops you in your tracks and you know, it actually, you know, very similar to what this pandemic has presented. It has, you know, forced time to slow down for a period for us to really make conscious changes and think about, what is a portion, what do we value? Where do we wanna go? Who do we wanna surround ourselves with? And you know, at the core, what do we wanna stand for? You know, important questions come up in crisis. And if we're open to it, we can make important decisions.
Yeah, I could not agree more. I adore you, thank you for coming on my show, I really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
Everyone should get Mike's book, it's called "Crash And Rise" and it-
It'll make you all rise.
It will make you all rise. Where can people find you online? I know all your social medias, the unbalanced paddleboarder.
Yeah, so people can connect with me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn-
Mike is everywhere is the lesson we're learning here.
I am everywhere. Soon to be on, you know, I'm talking with my digital marketing team where we're getting me on the Tik Tok.
Look at you. That's scary change for me, about the platform. But ahead of this, you know, big USA to Canada thing, you know, Tik Tok is an important vehicle, so I'll be there soon. But no, you can find me at mikeshoreman.org. That's the website or on any social media platform. And book is available on Amazon, "Crash And Rise: Diaries of The Unbalanced Paddleboarder" or in Indigo and Barnes&Noble Source.
So we will have links to all of this in the show notes. But in case someone is driving and listening or whatever, they can find it this way. Thank you for coming on and chatting with us Mike, it's always, always a pleasure truly. I think you're doing wonderful things in the world and I cannot wait to follow your journey across lake Ontario.
Thanks Celine, have a great day.
You too.
Thanks for joining me today on the Leading Through Crisis podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, please take a minute to rate and review us on your podcast app. If you're interested in learning more about any of our guests, you can find us online at www. leadingthroughcrisis.ca.