Mindfulness teacher and therapist, Joree Rose, discusses the challenges of navigating uncertainty and offers suggestions of specific tools to help leaders respond, instead of react, when facing challenging times.
Joree Rose, MA, LMFT, is a licensed marriage and family therapist, mindfulness and meditation teacher, coach, author, speaker, and she also leads mindfulness retreats around the world. Joree has helped thousands of people to live happier and more fulfilling lives through living with greater awareness and compassion, allowing them to decrease their stress, anxiety and shed unhealthy habits, patterns and mindsets.
Joree is the host of the podcast ‘Journey Forward with Joree Rose’ and has authored two mindfulness books, "Squirmy Learns to be Mindful" and" Mindfulness, It’s Elementary", and has been featured in Oprahmag.com, NBCnews.com, Business Insider, KTLA News, and more!
In this episode, we discuss the challenges facing leaders today and Joree offers suggestions of how they can navigate the uncertainty they are facing. We discuss the importance of self-care, leading by example, how a simple language shift can change our mindset, and compassion, among other things.
If you want to learn more about Joree, you can find her here: www.joreerose.com
FB: @joreerose33
IG: @joreerose
- Welcome to "Leading Through Crisis," the conversation series exploring the idea of leadership in challenging times.
- Welcome to "Leading Through Crisis." I'm Celine Williams and today I'm joined by Joree Rose, who's a marriage and family therapist and a mindfulness and meditation teacher. She's the host of the podcast "Journey Forward with Joree Rose" and guides people to become more present, aware, focused, and productive by helping them to reduce their stress, anxiety by shedding this unskillful habits and patterns that continuously keep them stuck and overwhelmed. Thank you for joining me, Joree.
- You are so welcome, Celine. I am so happy to be here and I thank you for putting this together. I think we are all not only in need of connection, but tools and guidance and community, so thank you for having me on.
- Oh my gosh, it's a pleasure. I know, just from we were chatting a couple minutes before I hit record and even just that I was like, oh this is gonna be a really exciting conversation. And I love your background and what you bring to the table in terms of human focus. So I wanna start by asking that big question, what are you seeing, what is your experience right now with everything that you're already involved in in terms of from therapy to mindfulness to all of these different pieces?
- You know, I have the sense that the mental health field is never gonna be seen as valued as it is now and for the months and years to come. What I'm seeing is people are needing the tools to manage their mental and emotional health in a way that they haven't prioritized before. And I'm seeing people come to heed this call to gain more tools, to come together in connection, and to be really vulnerable and saying, I'm struggling right now, whereas even just a few weeks ago I think the social norm was to present having all of our shit together, being able to manage through stress, stress or anxiety, or busyness being that glorified badge we wear of our productivity and our success. And I think people are being really honest around you know what, yeah, that's not working for me and I don't have to pretend to be anything ever than what I am in this moment. Whereas I thought as a therapist, potentially, people would not keep our weekly sessions. In fact, I've gotten three new clients in just this week. And I've had a Facebook group for some time and that group has doubled in size in the past week. I'm really feeling being called into service because I actually have the tools to help people and I've always known that. And I've been very much build it and they will come. So while I do the logistical side of my business, I've never pushed it so hard to get out there. But now I'm feeling the energy really different. If I'm not visible and showing up multiple times a day in my social media groups then I'm not being in service. For example, in that group I'm leading daily meditations. I'm doing evening short videos on different tools of mindfulness and how to reduce our stress and anxiety to really be present. And it ultimately, when we can manage our mental and emotional health, it's gonna boost our immune system. I think people are gonna see the connection of self-care in a way that they've never really recognized before. I'm seeing people step towards it. I'm seeing people embrace, hey, I don't know how to do this. 'Cause there's layers to this, right? I mean, I've even put together proposals for corporations to guide in mindfulness and part of that is, how do you maintain your business that you're now a stay-at-home parent? 'Cause for many people, yes, we have two dual income households because of what it costs to live. But we also have many parents who are working 'cause they didn't wanna be stay-at-home parents and now they are. And parenting is a big piece of what I do. So I'm feeling that the call to respond in all these aspects 'cause I've got the tools to help.
- What I'm hearing inside of everything that you're saying is that it's consistently that whole person perspective. We're not just a person at work and then a parent when we're at home. I mean, for many people, these things are very explicitly blended right now in a way that they have not been in the past.
- And I think it's giving people permission to show up as a whole self in either side because we're all in the same boat. And one of the things I've been saying is, we're gonna sink together or rise together, right? But we're all in the same boat. The more we can have camaraderie, community, and most importantly compassion right now. You were telling me before we hit record, "Oh my cat might be back here." And I was sharing that when I've been guiding my daily meditations, I've been dealing with my puppy. And he's a little extra needy right now. He just got neutered. So I've been laughing at my own ability of interrupting my own meditations. I'm leading it and I'm in the midst of interrupting it. And that's my reality right now. And it's also, if I can guide somebody in leading a meditation, getting distracted, being disrupted, and coming right back to my intention of what I was doing, then I'm also role-modeling, okay so distractions happen. It's gonna be part of our every day being right now so even in the midst of what I could otherwise have judged my lack of quote "professionalism," right? I'm now embracing as, hey guys, this is what you do when you're distracted. This is how you re-center, this is how we laugh, this is how we show up in vulnerability and say, you know what, we're all doing the best we can right now.
- Well it's the perfect time to truly, truly lead by example. I think a lot of times leaders, whether they're in business owners or executives, or they just consider themselves leaders in a community or a family or whatever it is, we talk about this is how things should be done, this is how it should be. But this is actually a chance and you're modeling that where we get to all step into leading by example and what is that example we wanna set.
- It's so true. And people are gonna be looking to those who they have otherwise seen as leaders. Talking to small business owners who've had to temporarily shut down and feel this loss and this mourning of their community they can't serve and feeling very down. And so my response to that is show up in that vulnerability to your community and still lead. You may not be guiding the same classes you were doing in your studio but you could still be leading. Because people are looking for answers right now. They're looking for tools. And as a mindfulness teacher, this is what I love so much about this practice is here we have this ancient contempulative practice that has been around for thousands of years that within the past 40 years, Western neuroscience has said, hey this stuff isn't just woo-woo, this is zen-like, peaceful practice. Here's what actually happens in your brain and your body when you do these tools and we know that practicing meditation and mindfulness changes on a cellular level, which is what I said earlier. It can boost our immune system and it's really true. But my point is, I love personally and, of course, professionally, having this framework of tools that was inherently designed on, how do I stop my own suffering? How do I get unstuck from the rampant negative thoughts in my mind? How can I be happy despite distractions, despite fear and anxiety and death and illness? This is what the Buddhists sat down to figure out and I love having something that I can fall back on that I know is gonna help me get more grounded and centered and present. And then if I can do that, then I can be there for my kids and I can be there for my partner and I can be there for my clients and I can be there for my community and then I can teach that because I know it works. It's not some magic pill you swallow. No, it takes practice and every moment's another opportunity to practice. I kind of feel like the universe right now, and don't get me wrong, I don't wanna discount the immense amount of suffering that I know is happening. Whenever I say this, I always wanna qualify, I know there's people who are really sick. I know there's families who are in really deep suffering financially, health-wise, and I'm holding space for all of it. But if I only focus on the suffering, then I will get dragged into that suffering, right? But I wanna hold this space for, I really feel that the universe is calling upon us all to actually practice mindfulness. I've always joked that I think mindfulness is the answer to everything because it's how we respond and not react to what's arising. 'Cause our tendency is to when I push away deny, resist, ignore, and judge what we don't like and we wanna grasp and cling and strive and hold on to what we do. And yet we have no control. It's all a perception of controlling whatever we thought we had to begin with. This call to respond, I think it's gonna wake us all up. I feel like the universe is shaking us all and saying, hey guys, something wasn't working. And unless we shook you all up and had you do a reset then the destruction of our humanity was gonna come sooner rather than later and that sounds apocalyptic but we know through global climate change, things weren't working the way they were going. And I feel like we have an opportunity to truly slow down and sit with ourselves and sit with our values and our priorities and strengthen our communities and our vulnerability in our humanness. 'Cause we're all in this together.
- There's two things inside of what you said that popped out to me that I wanna touch on. And the first one is that acknowledging that there is suffering and pain. And there are people who are really, truly, not going to survive this. And holding at the same time the thought that there's also opportunity inside of this. And to me, one of the things that has come up in a lot of conversations and I'm one of those really annoying people, full disclosure, that I'm always like, nothing is black and white, everything is a shade of gray. It's not you're not right or wrong, it's not yes or no. And this is sort of one of those examples where being able to hold those two thoughts at the same time and hold space for both of them, to me is really key inside of our ability to get through this and to be our best selves through this and to continue to lead through everything that's happened.
- One of the best ways that I teach how to do that is to replace one simple word in your vocabulary. And it is changing but to and.
- You're speaking to my ex-improv heart, you have no idea. I love it.
- So often, even when talking to our partners or our spouses, it's I love you but I hate when you do this. It negates, the but negates both sides. The and allows both to be true. And we know there's multiple truths. If we can hold space for the and, I think it shifts everything. The world is suffering right now and can we hold space for that while rising up?
- I encourage all of you guys, and it's funny, when I teach this to clients, just how quickly, in just regular conversation, they'll say but and how quickly when you practice this awareness you can catch yourself. I encourage you guys all to try this. Really notice, anytime you say but, just self-compassionately bring awareness, don't judge that you did it, and just try responding with and. And it'll start to shift everything.
- And I think that starting a practice like this now because it is more challenging, because it does feel heavier and more stressful, whatever your experience of it is, is a really good time to do it without judging yourself and without allowing yourself to feel any shame or guilt, whatever, if you say but because there is a reality. This is the opportunity to really practice it without any judgment and just see what happens.
- And just be curious, yeah.
- The other thing that I wanted to mention and truly I love the and, it really does speak to so much of what I believe in and so I truly thank you for bringing that up. And the other thing that really stood out to me is that a lot of people that I have been speaking with, there's almost this sense of guilt that they don't have it as bad as other people do or shame that they are feeling, not great, but they're okay, all things considered. And they don't know how to talk about it or what to talk about it or what to do inside of it. Even though I think people are right now much more vulnerable and open, there's still this piece I find a lot of people are struggling with.
- I love, Celine, that you brought that up. And I will be honest and say I'm one of those people. You know what, I'm okay right now. Knock on wood, wherever there's wood. We're safe. I enjoy the people I live with, I love my home, I can get out and exercise. I still am seeing my clients, I'm still connecting in my communities. It's okay. And, right, this is the and, the way that I talk about this in let's just go back to everyday life prior to all of this, one of the ways that I teach in this framework of mindfulness is that suffering has no hierarchy. Suffering is suffering. And if we were to compare suffering, then many of us would never acknowledge our shitty day. Because when I think about suffering, and if I really sit with that word, what comes up for me is the Holocaust. That's suffering. And if I don't acknowledge my bad day, if I'm comparing to some really major atrocity, then I'm gonna feel guilty for saying I'm having a bad day when it's simply a bad hair day or my jeans don't fit, like something more trivial which in the moment feels like a big deal. But to have this idea that suffering has no hierarchy, because as I always say to clients, if it's your suffering, own it. Whatever it is, then we're gonna judge ourself for if we don't have it as bad as somebody else. And yet, if we stay out of comparison, then we allow ourselves the compassion to say, "And I'm okay right now and I don't have to feel bad "for being okay right now." I think holding space for there's no hierarchy in suffering, that whatever your experience is, let that be okay without judgment, without shame, without guilt. And I think it's always important to separate out. Whenever I talk about guilt and shame, people use those words interchangeably and they're not interchangeable. So I just like to qualify that because I think as we get stuck in our own cycles of reactivity and self-judgment, I get really picky on language 'cause I think language is really, really powerful and and the language in which we communicate to ourselves and our own mind holds a lot of power in our bodies and our self-concept. Just to very simply name, guilt is when you feel sorry for something you've done. Shame is when you feel sorry for who you are. And this conversation but I just wanna bring it up because again, we're talking about all these emotions that people are experiencing and there's many people who are gonna get through this just fine. And you shouldn't have to apologize for that. I'm not sure I'd go around gloating about it. But still have compassion for the people who are really in distress right now and maybe use your ability to show up in service if it just means I have the space to hold space for someone else. How can I be a lending ear to someone or offer to go pick up groceries for an elderly because I'm capable right now. There's different layers to that.
- Right, and it's the idea of compassion is to me really key inside of this is that I think there are things, whether it's marketing or things that you're seeing that feel really tone-deaf right now, like gloating would. 'Cause gloating would feel tone-deaf and I think as long as we start from a place of compassion, that we minimize the likelihood that we're going to gloat or be tone-deaf or be seen that way.
- Yeah, just in the way I define the difference between guilt and shame. This might be seen as overly simplified but I'm gonna define compassion too. Because I think people, again, often interchangeably use words and I just wanna share this because I love this description and I think now's a really good time to be practicing compassion. This is the Dalai Lama's description of how he defines the difference of sympathy, empathy, and compassion. Because again, those words often get overused or underused depending on the meaning. And they're not always used accurately. And again, I think language is powerful. As the Dalai Lama puts it, if you're walking down a dirt road and you see a man stuck under a boulder, a big rock. To have sympathy for him, would say, "Oh, that sucks to be him. "That's too bad, this guy's stuck under a rock, "that's not a good place to be." To have empathy for him would be to say, walk past the man stuck under the boulder, and say, "Wow, that really must suck to be him "and how do I know? "Because I've been there too." Empathy is that felt sense of someone else's pain. Now sometimes empathy, if we're really empaths and we're really deeply feeling people, if we're too porous in our energy, we can take on someone else's pain so much that sometimes it can stop us and prevent us from stepping towards. Because sometimes feeling someone else's empathy and pain, paralyze us because we are now back in that position under the rock. To have compassion is to walk down that dirt road, see that man stuck under the boulder and say, "Wow, that really sucks to be him. "How do I know? "'Cause I've been there and I'm gonna help him "get out from underneath." I take that storyline description and define compassion as empathy plus action. The Latin translation of compassion is to sit with so we're really talking about sitting with another in their suffering. But to me it's a verb, right? It's an action item, so if I'm actively being compassionate, what am I doing? And it's okay to not always act on it because, again, if you're such an empath that you're taking on other people's energy, it can be hard to step towards. So it's okay to not always have to act on it but as we hold the space, and I think for leaders right now, it's also really important to be aware of your own level of empathy and compassion because it's really easy to get compassion fatigue where we're helping so much and we're being a leader and we're stepping up in service so much that we are now drained and we perhaps are feeling depleted for now having healthy self-care or showing up for our families.
- For those leaders that are feeling compassion fatigue, and I think there are a lot of them. I think--
- That's why I wanted to bring topic to this so much 'cause I think it's a very real phenomenon happening.
- Yeah, and I agree with you. And the two things I keep hearing are information fatigue in the sense that everyone is just being like, "Solve this problem. "Here's more information. "Solve this," which is not necessarily what people can do. But they can't do anything with it right now. So information fatigue and they're not using the language compassion fatigue but 100% that's what it is. For people who are feeling that and I think there are a lot who don't even know how to acknowledge what it is and will listen to this or watch this and be like, "That's it, that's the thing." What are some things that they can do to shift that to feel less fatigued, to re-energize themselves inside of that?
- Yeah, the very first thing that comes to mind is setting boundaries. And especially as leaders and we have people who show up being in service and are really wanna be there for their community, whether that's business, whatever sort of community you're showing up as in leadership. If we don't set healthy boundaries, we are now not role-modeling to our communities how to take care of themselves. Knowing how to say no, I did that this morning. I got asked to send out a proposal to do a group for teenage girls right now and I wrote back and said you know what, I'm feeling a little tapped out on how much I'm supporting others, I can't take on more support groups right now. It wouldn't be in the best service of me and how I can best show up for you guys so maybe can we loop back in two or three weeks and see how I'm doing then? Because if I'm not present then I'm not doing my job. That's hard for me to say no because I believe I can help them. But I also know at some point, am I helping myself? And to unapologetically name my needs. I mean, this is a phrase that I talk about in couples work and it's really hard to unapologetically name your needs because it's easy to feel guilty and selfish for expressing a need. And in fact it's just human to have needs. We're not needy for having needs. If my need is to serve less right now, if my need is to have a harder boundary around, you know what, I am done working at five o'clock or whatever it is. But it's the unapologetic piece because I think it's hard to say no. And part of--
- [Celine] It's selfish to a lot of people.
- It really does. And I think, again, in this rise to be more aware that the universe is calling upon us right now, hopefully we can reset some of those preconceived notions or mindsets of what success or that glorification of busyness looks like. The boundaries don't just go as far as saying no to taking on more work, it's also knowing your boundaries around, when you said information, I've had a lot of clients who have told me, "I can't watch the news "and I can't be on social media after a certain time of day" so knowing your needs around your input and self-compassionately limiting that. That goes as far as even in your social network of your friends. I hate this phrase social distancing 'cause I think it's inaccurate. It's physical distancing, that's what we're really doing. We're not socially distant, we're physically distant. In that, people are feeling the need to be more social and stay connected and I'm seeing all these Zoom cocktail hours, and groups of friends. And it's also okay to say, "I need some alone time. "I need to be quiet. "I need to not be talking or listening. "I need to be really still." One of the things that you mentioned I think is a great point is that people might not be aware that this is what they're experiencing. I wanna speak to how could you notice if this is what you're experiencing? Very, very, very quick description of our brain because I think when we have knowledge of how our brains and our bodies work, you can be more insightful into what's going on. I wanna explain a few things because I think this information can help you understand what's coming up for you that you might otherwise judge as just a bad mood or something. Very few things, one is when our emotional brain, which is here, when our emotions fire off, our amygdalae is like this alarm and it shuts down our prefrontal cortex which is where our executive functioning is, our logic, reason, rationality, decision making, clear thinking, communication, learning and retaining information. Any strong emotion, stress, anxiety, overwhelm, anger, depression, sadness, overhungry, overtired, you name it, if that emotion's, strong emotion's firing off, this is gonna not really work to its optimal level. What does that look like in practicality? I can't tell you how many clients I've said, "I feel like my brain is super fuzzy right now. "I can't even get focused to do my work. "I'm really stressed, I can't think straight, "I can't complete a project. "I'm having a hard time making decisions. "Okay, that's just simply your brain. "That's your brain saying my emotions are overwhelmed, "I need to quiet down those emotions "so I can get all this back to work." If you notice that fuzzy brain, if you notice difficulty focusing and paying attention, it's likely due to you're just exhausted and stressed. Without judging yourself for that, bringing compassionate awareness and the two ways to calm down that emotional brain is to breathe. Taking brain breaks. If you're feeling this compassion fatigue, take in a brain break to breathe. Another scientifically proven way is to name what you're experiencing so that you can compassionately say to yourself, "Wow, I'm really overwhelmed right now." It's so simple but just naming it let's it be separate from you. You are a now instantly an observation of it rather than over-identification with it as who you are. It's just what you're experiencing. That's gonna help calm down the emotional brain, allowing your body to settle. The other piece that I think people might be able to easily tune into as a response to some of this overall fatigue and/or stress is our physiology. Because another piece about the brain is our brain has been designed to keep us safe, which when we were cavemen, was great. Modern day world, not so much. Because our brain produces a physiological response when it feels a threat. When we saw a bear in the cave, it prepared us to run or fight the bear. We got our fight, flight, freeze because our brain is saying hey, you gotta run for your life or defend for your life and here's how we're gonna prepare your body to manage that threat. Here's the problem though is our brain doesn't know the difference between a real or a perceived threat and it's still gonna produce that same physiology where you're gonna get the increased heart rate, the tension, the tightness in your chest, the pit in your stomach, the feel that your blood is boiling. We feel that in our bodies often before you cognitively are aware I'm stressed. Our brains, even if we see a shadow that we perceive as a bear, our brain doesn't know the difference and it's gonna go into that same response. Modern day analogy, a simple thought can produce the same physiological response as if you're in a real threat. All of this to say, if we are tuning in to what's arising in our body, that tightness, that tension, that throat constriction, that increased heart rate, the shoulders raised up to the ears, let that be a reminder your brain is on overwhelm right now. Unless we can draw some of those boundaries to say no or I'm turning off my social media or I'm not watching the news, we're constantly getting that threat response in the brain. And so, even if we have a good ability of managing it, it's still happening. This is where I think the simple brain science is so helpful in understanding because people experience the results of this without understanding the causes of it and then they think, "I'm not good at managing my stress. "What's wrong with me?" And then they turn to defended habits, resistance, denying it, drinking, anger, whatever it is. But I think when there's a knowledge of this is how your brain's been designed, so we can use this information as power then we can say, okay, wow I'm really stressed what can I do to bring my body and my mind and my brain some more peace? And I think especially right now, getting up and moving our bodies, exercise, get outside, you can still go outside, right? Go move, go stretch. We gotta also shift this energy through. The more we're still, the more it stays stuck, the more that compassion fatigue is gonna get bigger, the more our stress is gonna get bigger, the more we're gonna feel depleted, making it all hard to show up and be present, be aware, and for those of us who are in leadership positions and opportunities, it's gonna be really hard. I think the best thing you can do as a leader is to show up vulnerably and say yeah, hey guys, here's where I'm at, how are you managing 'cause we're all human. We're all wired the same but different, right?
- I keep reminding people it's okay to say, "I don't have all the answers right now." You don't have to be the person that has all the answers. I recognize that if you run a large organization, if you run a large team, you're used to people are used to coming to you for answers and it's okay right now to be open and say, "I'm here. "Here's what I'm going through. "I don't have all the answers but we can talk about this, "we can be in this together." And I think all of what you just said gives people permission but understanding what's really happening. I'm an information junkie in the sense that I wanna understand things like the brain science because when I know that I have permission to say, "I don't have all the answers," or "I'm feeling a little overwhelmed right now, "can I get back to you tomorrow," it's okay now.
- Yes! That's why I always love bringing it up. And letting people know, so whether in any speaking engagement I do, anytime I'm working with a client for the first time, it's one of the very first things I'll talk about because in absence of that knowledge, we think something's wrong with us. And we're all human. And we are all learning how to respond in a new way. And to me, it's all about how can we respond and not react? 'Cause the reactions are unskillful, the responses are more intentional. Again, we are being called to a new way of being right now and we're all figuring it out together and I really believe we are going to get through this. Life will return to a new normal, because it's not going back to the way it was. And that's actually probably a really good thing. Because our universe, our planet, we needed some healing to occur.
- Mm-hmm, and I think it's really good perspective to think about this as despite everything that's going on, regardless of whatever language you need to use, there is an opportunity, there is a time for healing. Whether it's you are at home spending more time with yourself and you can heal and look at some of those wounds, whether you are healing a team at a company that is struggling or wasn't coming together, whether you have family things, there's so many planetary, societally. If you think of it all as an opportunity for healing, I think there's a lot of power in that, so I love that you used that word.
- Yeah, and I think we all have areas of healing despite how quite evolved or put together or practiced, we're never done. We're never fully cooked nor would we want to be, at least in my opinion. I think there's opportunity here and if we respond mindfully to this opportunity, it's gonna all be okay. And I think the more people like you and I who are getting out and putting ourselves in front of others, giving not just the concepts of, yeah, hey, there's healing to be happen but to give the tools, right? That's why I've been so called into service within my community that I hope to keep growing which is why I'm doing all these daily videos and six days a week, leading two meditations a day and giving people tools of mindfulness because all of this is really conceptual until you've got the tangible tools to put into practice.
- Because you mentioned your Facebook group, and I know you're doing all this there, can you tell us what the Facebook group is so people can find you because I'm sure after listening to this, they're gonna wanna know more.
- I'm trying to think of the easiest way because--
- I can post a link under this box.
- I'll post a link to it but anyone can look me up on Facebook, it's just Joree Rose and that's an open page and many of my regular paged posts have links into the group. But my group is Journey Forward with Joree Rose. Well that's the name of the podcast too, the group is Journey Forward. You'll be able to find me. Look me up on Facebook, Instagram, because I have the links in my Instagram bio as well. And it's been beautiful to really show up daily. Because again, there is this dual piece of it. There's the grounding piece which is the meditation which is, how do I get out of my head, out of my stories and into my body and into the present moment? And then there's the practical piece of now, well, how do I implement this the rest of the day? The mindfulness piece is the daily application and meditation piece is that formal practice that informs the mindfulness piece because we're strengthening the muscle of the brain. And to me I think mindfulness is the answer to everything, honestly. I've always said this, Celine, that whether you're sitting in traffic or dealing with cancer, the tools are the same. 'Cause again, suffering has no hierarchy so whatever you're managing in the present moment, it's always a question of how we show up. And just to add, people always say, "Oh, I don't have time to be mindful. "I don't have time to practice mindfulness." Well, you have time to be angry and you have time to be stressed. And I say that lovingly and kinda jokingly because mindfulness isn't about adding something else to your to-do list. Sure, showing up for a five-minute meditation in my group, I guess that's something to add to your to-do list, however, mindfulness is really about how you wanna be. So it's what's on your to-be list versus your to-do list. How do you wanna show up in the world? What's the quality of presence you wanna bring to your own life, to your relationships, to the thoughts in your head, to the emotions you experience, the sensations in your body, it's about a quality of presence. And it takes a skill to strengthen that.
- I love the idea of a to-be list instead of a to-do list. I mean I think that is brilliant. And I guarantee that's gonna be the quotable that comes out of this or one of them because I think that's super powerful. And and not but. And what's on your to-be list instead of your to-do list because the to-do list is never going away. It's a perception of accomplishment when you cross items off because as soon as we cross one off, three more appear. And then we're never gonna feel that we've gotten something done. But the to-be list is something people don't often stop and consider. And this again is one of those, the universe is calling upon us right now, you guys. And if nothing else, it's asking, how do you wanna show up in your day and in your life and in the presence of your own mind and in your relationships and in your families and in your careers and most importantly to yourself? 'Cause it's always gonna start with self.
- I wanna thank you profoundly for taking the time to talk with me today about this. This has been so valuable and I know people are gonna get a ton out of this conversation so--
- I'm so glad, anytime. This stuff, it fires my heart and soul up because I am so passionate about getting the tools out there that I know we all desperately need. And I'm grateful I've had 10 years of practice so far and let me tell ya, when you practice these tools that I'm talking about, this awareness, this being intentional, this being compassionate, it works. It's not magic, but it works. And so I feel that now more than ever we can practice together.
- I could not agree more. Thank you from the absolute bottom--
- You are so welcome, you are so welcome. Thank you for creating the space for this.
- It has been truly my pleasure. Thanks for listening to us talk around leadership in challenging times. If you would like to learn more about us or any of our guests, you can find us online at www.leadingthroughcrisis.ca. If you like the show please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcast from.