Reverend Gillian Edwards has been a minister for 20 years and has held management roles in media and education for over 25 years. In this episode, she shares her thoughts on the importance of finding inner peace and introducing simplicity into our lives. Gillian talks about the opportunity to take this time to learn to listen to ourselves and others and connect to your community in a meaningful way. She also shares some valuable tips on how to meditate!
Reverend Gillian Edwards serves as a governor on the board of the national body of the church she serves, where she has a seat on the education committee. She is also a past president and current director on another local non-for-profit board where she holds the position of chairperson. She explains: “The best part of this work is witnessing people heal, grow and accept their personal calling whatever it may be and not only be of service to others but enjoy and succeed in the process and isn’t that what life is ultimately about.”
In her professional life, she has owned her own business and worked in the media and communications fields for over 25 years. Gillian has a strong background in education, and has thought in college system for over 26 years. She presently holds a management position in the same institution.
In this episode, Gillian talks about the valuable opportunity we have to connect with ourselves and others during times of crisis. She talks about the importance of finding peace within and finding a way to simplify our lives as leaders.
Gillian discusses how to simplify your life, how easy it can be to meditate, how to find inner peace no matter what’s happening around you, and how to connect deeply with yourself, as well as other people. Don’t miss this powerful discussion full of practical tips and advice for anyone interested in finding peace within, whether they are new to the idea or have been practicing for years.
Gillian recommends the book “STRENGTH IN STILLNESS: The power of transcendental meditation” by Bob Roth during the episode. You can find the book here: https://stillnessbook.com
If you are interested to speak with Gillian directly, please contact us through our website and we will connect you directly with her.
- [Celine] Welcome to Leading Through Crisis. A conversation series exploring the idea of leadership in challenging times.
- Hi, welcome to Leading Through Crisis. I'm Celine Williams and I am really excited to introduce Gillian Edwards to you. Not only because I've known Gillian forever it feels like, but also because she brings a wealth of knowledge to the conversation we're about to have. So Gillian has been a minister in the Church of Universal Love for 19 years. She's the director of a non-for-profits, it's on multiple boards, and is also a college administrator. So she has a really unique and varied perspective around this topic. So thank you so much for joining me.
- My pleasure.
- I wanna start a little bit broad in this because you do have really diverse experience and perspectives on this from being a minister, which is a really. You are leading a flock, for lack of a better term. You are a visual leader as a minister right? To working in organizations and working on boards.
- Right.
- The leadership is seen and viewed differently and is perceived differently. So from all of these experiences and perspectives, when you think about leading through crisis, what does that bring up for you? What comes to mind?
- A lot of different things. Probably the most important is, well my experience right now. Is to think things through and be as straight forward and as simple as possible. In the way we communicate, in the heart to hearts that we have. Listening been really important on the corporate level. Listening to staff members and their needs and ideas. Because everybody wants to help. I think listening and simplicity have been the the biggest for me.
- It totally makes sense and it's really interesting you say that. Because I think a lot of people who are in leadership positions, and even if they're not formally in a leadership position and they just see themselves as a leader, which is totally valid as well, doesn't come with a title.
- Absolutely.
- Right. But I think a lot of them are naturally inclined to be problem solvers, and to want to jump right in and fix things, and listening feels counterintuitive.
- Yeah, and I've been in a bunch of those conversations recently. In times of crises, great ideas and ingenuity come up. And voices that you wouldn't normally hear, or wouldn't normally expect raise their hands and come up with awesome ideas. That's why listening to everyone is so important. And the simplicity had several conversations today. Even just before we came on about, how are we gonna do something, and let's make it simple. People are so stressed right now, that what you need to do is bring the energy down, not necessarily ratchet it up.
- The word that comes to mind for me is that idea of, it's like deescalating the situation. So you're taking it to the bare bones, that it works.
- Right
- without being continually adding.
- Right, so for instance, I'll just give you a quickie. I was in a meeting recently with a leader. They were so caught up in the drama of what was going on outside. And everyone's got their hands on a keyboard, ready to contribute. And they're caught up in their fear. And so what happens is the energy just shifts. And you have to be aware of this. Energy is a big thing. So what we started doing was taking deep breaths, and focusing and centering ourselves. And this is in business. This isn't necessarily in church meeting. And it works. We just center ourselves for the purpose of this moment. What are we doing right now? What do we have to solve? Let's just center ourselves and move forward. It works.
- Absolutely. And there are some, by no means am I saying all corporate environments. And I do wanna talk about the sort of ministerial role verses corporate role in a second. But I do wanna say this. I think sometimes, in meetings, we are more likely, if we're in person to call it out and say, "Okay, everyone "just take a deep breath and let's come back to it." We're more likely to do that. And in these moments, where so much of this is virtual. It's a really powerful reminder, that we can do this virtually. You and I can together say, "Okay, let's take "a couple deep breaths and just release whatever it is, "and come back to what we're talking about." That's okay to do.
- Yeah and really important, just to be frank and a honest. So I had a team meeting the other day. And I started with, what's the best thing about being isolated in your home, and then what's the worst. And we just all shared, I went last, and whoever went first, went first. And it just got people relaxed and talking. So when we went to the subject at hand, everybody was already engaged in listening to everybody.
- I love that you started with a question that's not necessarily, I mean it's not just starting, so many conversations now, they start with coronavirus or Covid-19. People are diving in there. That's it. That's the starting point. And I love that you started with a reflection, rather than a conversation where everyone wants to share instead of listen.
- Yeah, that's my style. My colleagues don't all share that. But they appreciate it, but they don't all share that. They have a different view which is fine, because we have to all come together. Because it's the group and the teams that form that bring these awesome solutions. Today was one of those days actually.
- And it's interesting 'cause my guess is, again, I have a benefit of having known you quite a few years now. But my guess is that some of that style that you bring, that starting with reflection that having those questions comes from having training as a minister and being a minister in a different setting.
- Yes, yeah. And I would even go as far as to say that it's the personal practice that I have, that informs all of that. And that personal practice is meditation. And I'm not gonna tell you how old I am, not that it matters, but I've been doing this since I've been about 18. Not exactly all the time, but it's been in my life for a long time. The idea of being centered and being able to do it quicker, to go within is that practice. So that's where that comes from.
- So I think the topic of meditation is really valuable right now. And I'm gonna tell a little bit about how I know Gillian. Because it is actually relevant. So I think I was small. Six to eight younger when I met Gillian at a meditation group that my mother took me to. So I was quite young, I've not always had a consistent meditation per practice despite having been in that group. But I have--
- Shame on you.
- I know. I'm working on it. I come back and forth, but it is something that's important to me and I recognize the value of it. And I know that I also have a unique perspective on it because I learned how to do it super young. And so I often say that it feels like I can get into meditative states in weird places now, because I don't need a specific environment 'cause I was so young. So, I say this because I am also a person that believes very strongly in meditation, has a bias towards it because of this. And this is how I've known Gillian as long as I've known her. And so, for those that are new to it, or for those that are hearing talk about this right now, and know neurologically and neuroscience is probably valueable, but how can they start? And what does this look like? 'Cause there's still people who will tell you that meditation has to look this way, or it has to be this, or it's this long, or blah blah blah and I don't know that is the message that serves people at this point.
- Right, so I can make it really easy. At least I think. You don't have to be religious. And it's about being at peace. So you can go honestly, anywhere. You don't have to be in the most perfect setting, you're right, to meditate. There's nothing wrong with closing your eyes, and taking a deep breath in and a deep breath out. And thinking the word peace, and then opening your eyes. I mean that could be as simple as that. Because not everybody's done it. Not everybody has had the time, but we're being given the time, and I think it's really important. That's one simple way. I do want to recommend a book if that's okay.
- Yeah, please that's what, I love it.
- It's called The Power of Transcendental Meditation by Bob Roth. I don't know, can you see that?
- When it's blown up, you'll be able to see it yes. And I'll put the title in the show notes anyway, so that people can, they actually see what the book is.
- Right. So you don't have to do transcendental meditation. There's all kinds of meditation, and there's all kinds of apps. Walking and running can be a meditation. But there is value to being able to sit in the silence, and that takes cultivation. That takes time. I just wanna read you one little thing, it's not long and where is it.
- Even if it's long, you can read whatever.
- From chapter four of this book, he's talking about the benefits of meditation. "It's not an escape. "You meditate for the sake of your life." Now that's big. And transcendental meditation can absolutely change your life. I did it for seven years in a row. I use it personally. You do need to do it with someone to coach you. Because it's powerful. But it's not powerful scary, it's transformative in a positive way. Sitting and being quiet, listening to meditative music, is just as important, as contemplation or thinking something through, or reading something powerful. They can all have affects, but going into the silence, and diving down into that energy is life changing, and can bring you such inner peace, you have no idea.
- And right now, especially that inner peace is going to do nothing but be a benefit to you as you lead. Even if you are not, again, doesn't matter if it's a formal title of leadership. If you are leading yourself or your family, or wanna be the example. That inner peace is gonna be nothing but beneficial right now.
- Right and there's this really interesting study. It's an old study that talks about the effect of meditation on a group. So 1% of the population of a household, a business, a school, so that 1% meditates on a regular basis. There's a tipping point and it causes peace and change in many different ways.
- Really, that's cool. I've never heard that.
- Yeah, no, it really is. It's true, there's studies. They started them in the '70s and yeah. There's a book about it. I'm sorry I didn't bring it with me. I can't remember the name right now, but I can get it to you if you want it.
- Yeah if you get it, again, I'll link it in the show notes. 'Cause when post this, I'll have notes about the show so I'll definitely do that. Yeah.
- There's also a lot information about the more you meditate, and I don't mean hours, I mean consistent meditation. So maybe morning, night, or just a morning practice, or a night practice changes your physiology. And they were also started testing people who meditate to see what happens to your immune system. And it changes your immune system for the better. And you become stronger. There's that too, and again scientific proof. So for those of you who are interested in that kind of thing, it's out there to support you.
- And I think that's really important, 'cause there are definitely people that it is about the science. Without they're not on board. So this is great because I will direct them to some of those places, I appreciate that.
- One of the other things I read today, and I really appreciated and I didn't think about it this way and I thought maybe you, and the people that you work with would find this interesting And it was First Nation's writer, talking about how when you're going through something, you wanna bounce back, but you don't really wanna bounce back into where you were. You wanna move forward and I thought that was brilliant. Because you wanna move forward, especially at this time. There's a course correct that's happening for so many people and it's around values and affects. A sacred life, a spiritual life helps us get there.
- And I agree with that. And a spiritual life doesn't all, they don't all, it's not one spiritual life. There's not one right spiritual life. That is an all encompassing statement. And I know you know that, but I wanna emphasize that because I think it's really important that there's not one right way to be doing it.
- Exactly. Any faith, any practice that gets you to the holy part of yourself, gets you to the point where you can listen and be who you truly are, and lead from a place that's authentic. And ugh, I hate that word, but true. Your true self, to the truth and light of your being. And that you know without a shadow of a doubt. That your practices and what you're doing, is honest and straight forward and simple. You'd be surprised what can happen.
- I love that you keep saying the word simple. Because I think that we, I mean, I think humans at the best of times have a tendency to overcomplicated things. And I think when the proverbial poop hits the fan, like it's sort of done right now, we do that even more because we wanna fill time and feel busy and do all the things. And so, the idea of simplifying is more valuable than ever and I wanna ask you, when you talk about simplifying, what does that look like? How does it start? Are there questions you ask? Is there a way to get into keeping things simple, that you have found effective in your experiences?
- Very good question. Well since this crisis has begun, it's been really important to me to be able to communicate and let my people know that simple is best. We need a straight forward solutions. We know our end result that we have to achieve, so don't complicate it. Like a simple solution can be just as robust fact, probably more appealing. Because we can achieve something together, or individually in quicker time, easier. Yeah simple has always been a guiding principle for me I think. We all can get complicated. Trust me, I was in a conversation the other day, and I saw the vision and I knew where we were going. But everyone had to sort of get out their part. And then I just had to refocus everyone. But that was okay because little bits and pieces of somebody else's idea, a little bit of this all comes together for this great idea. It deescalates for sure.
- In those moments when things are getting overcomplicated, do you have a way that you help refocus people, or questions you ask that kind of get them out of their own way?
- So I always begin with my curiosity. I'm sure many leaders think they have the answer. They know they wanna go, and generally you know your business. Like you know what you wanna achieve. And you hire people who are the experts in their area, and I really count on my teams to have their expertise. So the kind of questions I ask are where, I encourage them in their expertise. For instance, earlier today I was talking to someone and asking them about their confidence in this solution, 'cause the solution is expensive. And he had done a fair amount of research, and I had been doing parallel research. Because I thought if his idea doesn't work, I need a solution. But I was constantly engaged with him and listening to him So then I just had an open conversation. I just said, "Okay, what's your confidence "in this solution?" And he provided it. And curiosity, I always start with I'm curious. Like I do use that word. Not overuse it, but I'm curious what your thoughts are. I'm curious what you think about this. I don't know if that answers your question really, but.
- It does, I mean it doesn't have to answer my question specifically, but it does. And I think it's a reminder that, being curious and even acknowledging that curiosity is powerful in and of itself. I wanna ask a question that's a little bit off the topic of this, but. With everything that's happening in the role of minister, and that role of feeling compelled, and drawn to leading people in that way. What do you feel has changed, or how are you showing up now that might be different or is been reinforced with everything that's happening. Because this type of crisis in this way is unprecedented.
- So as a board, we decided that we would, I mean you see people everyday. It's like you see everyday at work, I see people on Sundays. We reach out if someone's ill or sick or something like that. Re enacted a phone tree. And the board all took names and numbers. And we reached out to regular members, and members who we hadn't seen in a long time, or friends, I'll call them friends of the church. And that one-on-one and the value it has for people when you reach out. Especially when you're feeling isolated has been tremendous. And people are grateful, very grateful for that. Also, technology. I'm trying something totally new. I'm gonna do a live meditation, and we're gonna try something different for our church. So we're involving technology. It's always been a goal, but now we're gonna have to try it.
- Yeah, and for you personally, how are you feeling about all of this? Are you drawn to, and I ask this because, when I put out the call to talk to certain people around this topic of leading through crisis, you immediately stepped up. Which tells me that you are being drawn to lead in a visible way inside of this. So I wonder what that is for you, or what's coming up for you as part of that.
- Even though I'm talking about calm and peace, I feel there's an urgent need for all of us as humans to step up and grow. I feel like there's an opportunity to do a lot of inner work and inner growth. And the world is improved every time we heal ourselves just that much more. And so I feel that that is really important right now. I'm just trying to think, one of the first nights that I was home after being isolated or we had to leave work. and I remember getting up at four in the morning and feeling urgent to meditate and send out healing. I haven't had that the same way, being woken out of my sleep. But I recognize that I've been talking about this need to deepen our practices for about a year now. Not knowing why necessarily except for I know what the results are when we deepen our own spiritual practice, doesn't matter your faith. You don't have to have faith, you can contemplate. You can read great poetry, read inspirational speakers. How are you gonna grow and move forward? There's a pause that we're being given to sort of take a look at what's going on in the world. Our role in it, and how can we just be a better human being? I think that this illness doesn't just affect one part of a population, all are vulnerable. And I think that's a huge lesson for us. We're all together in this planet. And we need to recognize that. And it's interesting how this kind of behavior invokes the need for kindness. And it's interesting how people are being praised right now for their kindness. Which is okay, which is great, 'cause we need more kindness in the world.
- And recognition of kindness is not a bad, there's a word I'm looking for, but if it enables more kindness to happen, then recognizing the kindness is a wonderful thing.
- Yes, it's interesting. I reached out to people beyond my teams. People I know in different parts of the organization and just I know their story, I know their family. Or I don't know anything about their family, but I know them, I see them everyday, or I see them once a week or whatever. And I started reaching out and it was really interesting to get the kind of feedback I got.
- What kind of feedback did you get?
- Just so thankful and grateful that somebody asked about them.
- One of the things that I've heard from talking to people having these conversations. Which is not necessarily the messaging that's sort of out in the world in general. But one thing that keeps coming up, which you touched on is the idea that we're all in this together. And I think that is a really important concept. And I think the fact that it hasn't always felt that way is part of the reason that people, when you are reaching out to check on them, that it feels surprising. That it feels new, like unexpected. Because the interesting thing, even though we are quote, socially distancing which is really physically distancing, in a lot of ways, it's actually enabled an understanding that we are all in this together. And we are all there for each other.
- Yeah, I think it's really interesting how this illness has made us realize that we're all in it together. But we're in our homes separate. Now what's that about? Not what is that about, we know what that is about, but we need the silence, we need the separation to value the togetherness, right?
- Yes.
- And it's interesting you know. Now people are really intimately close with their families in a way they haven't probably been in a long time. One of my biggest things is you have to be kind to yourself and you have to be kind to others. I have to tell you, I live on my own, so I'm used to being on my own. However, being in my space, not going out hardly at all. I can drive myself crazy. I can see some habits or some things that I'd like to change. There was one night I was so frustrated with, I'm so used to picking up the phone to talk. And that's part of my style of business. I'm a people person, I talk. And I was so frustrated that I didn't have the phone that I normally have and I was frustrated and angry. I just said, "Okay, that's it, I'm just gonna go." I had dinner and then I decided, "Okay, I'm "just gonna go meditate and go to bed, 'cause whatever." And I always pick up a book. And I picked up a book, an author I love, Anne Lamott. She's funny, she found religion after getting sober, and she's very raw and humor, love her. Anyways, I just picked up her book, opened a page, and there was a little statement about how God loves you. It made me laugh and I was fine after that. We can be crazy. We're living really close for those families. And work sometimes gives you a break. And so you have to be kind to yourself, and you have to be kind to each other.
- I think it's a powerful message. And I think a lot of people are struggling with both pieces of it, but definitely the being kind to themselves. I think a lot of people don't really even know what that means.
- Me too. I think that changes depending on your age and stage of life and where you are month to month depending on your needs. But I think this gives us the opportunity to realize what we truly need. Not what we think we need.
- Well, and I love that perspective shift of actually taking this as an opportunity to figure out what it is that we need. Not what someone else tells us self care should look like. Not what someone online says this is what you need to do every single day. But what actually matters to you, and what's gonna make a difference to you.
- So Celine, I have a quick story. So I know you coach. And I remember a long time ago, I had a coaching session with someone. And one of her things was, well you know, you could have a bubble bath and blah blah blah. And I couldn't get over how angry I was. And at first, I thought, "Oh my, I'm being so rude. "Why did this make me so angry?" And when I walked away, I realized she had not paid attention to what I said or who I was really. Because I can understand a busy mother or father, who really does need that bubble bath to get away from the craziness. And you can be living on your own as well and needing a bubble bath. But that was clearly not what I needed. I think that takes me back to the very beginning is really listening to each other. Really really listening and listening to yourself. Listening to yourself as well.
- This is like a really beautiful sort of bow, that we've wrapped this up, and because part of how you get better at listening to yourself, can be done by meditating and having those moments of stillness and reflection.
- Yeah and if you're not ready for that yet, but we're in this time and you're not sure, take a walk and don't take your headphones.
- That's a great--
- Listen to the birds. Listen to the sounds or the lack thereof. Or listen to the silence beneath the noise.
- I think that's a beautiful reminder, and a really wonderful place to wrap this up. I wanna thank you. Do you have anything that you didn't get a chance to say or anything that you'd like to leave people with. Or send them or recommend before we wrap the conversation.
- I think you have to find that inner peace quicker. And I think that's most important right now.
- I love that and I just wanna add to what you were saying, and not to hijack it, but I've worked with a number of people who, they identify as being Christians. And one of the things that they found powerful, was the idea of using prayer as a meditation. That is a familiar idea for them, and so being able to use that. And that was in talking to often there, various ministers or whatever it was. That has worked for them in terms of finding a practice. I just wanna add to that 'cause I think what you're saying about finding what works. And talking to people that are in whatever group you identify with if you do, can be really powerful. And I don't think people talk about that enough.
- Well and for those individuals who are Christians. I think one of the most powerful statements again around contemplation and stillness is be still and know that I am god. And I challenge those individuals to just sit with that and feel God.
- Yeah, I love it.
- It's powerful.
- It's very powerful.
- And to save God, you can say creator, you can say the divine, holy mother.
- Spirit.
- Universe, spirit. And call on it, and sit in it, and see what it feels like. It's awesome.
- Yeah, I totally agree. I wanna thank you profoundly for taking the time to chat with me and to help in putting this together to provide some value to people that are out there. I appreciate all of your suggestions and sharing on this idea of leading through crisis. And I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me for this long about it. It's wonderful and much appreciated.
- I love it and if I can ever help anybody, they could talk to you, and I would be happy if someone needs to reach out. 100% when I do create the show notes for everyone listening or watching this depending what format. There will be a way to contact, I'm not gonna put your email out there so that you don't get spammed. But there will be a way that they can contact me and I will contact you, that is absolutely the. So thank you definitely on that note.
- My pleasure.
- Thanks for listening to us talk around leadership in challenging times. If you would like to learn more about us or any more of our guests, you can find us online at www.leadingthroughcrisis.ca. If you liked the show, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts from.