In this episode, Bob Chonka and Jon Grannis of Sollah Interactive chat with us about one of the biggest issues facing organizations today: Are leaders truly equipped to guide their teams through challenging times and whatever comes next?
In this episode, Bob Chonka and Jon Grannis of Sollah Interactive chat with us about one of the biggest issues facing organizations today: Are leaders truly equipped to guide their teams through challenging times and whatever comes next?
You'll hear:
- How leadership expectations have shifted with the rise of millennial leaders
- About the impact of technology on communication, and why relevance, realism, and relatability matter more than ever
We explore the role of healthy conflict, why unresolved tension creates dysfunction, and how organizations can build cultures where communication, collaboration, and psychological safety thrive.
Finally, we discuss:
- FOBO (the fear of becoming obsolete), especially among older generations
- How to break knowledge-hoarding behaviors
- Why mistakes should be leveraged instead of punished
-Why microlearning courses are the future of developing soft skills in a fast-paced, distracted workforce
Whether you lead a team, run an organization, or simply want to future-proof your career, this episode delivers practical, immediately applicable insights for staying strong, relevant, and equipped for whatever challenges come next.
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Sollah provides fast, flexible workplace compliance and soft skills training solutions. We design for all training platforms and modalities, helping organizations aim their message, fulfill their learning goals, and achieve performance improvement by taking into account their audience, implementation needs, and ultimate performance objectives.
Learn more at sollah.com and connect with them on all social platforms @sollahinteractive.
Jon Grannis: [00:00:00] Conflict isn't bad, right? Tension isn't bad.
Céline Williams: Amen.
Jon Grannis: It's when you don't resolve it that's when it becomes an issue, A workplace issue, a personal issue, things like that. But out of conflict, out of tension, oftentimes comes innovation.
Judith: Welcome to the Leading Through Crisis podcast, brought to you by reVisionary. Exploring resilient leadership in a world of constant change. Every few weeks, Céline Williams — speaker, strategist, and trusted advisor to leaders navigating change — brings conversations that explore how to deal with the inevitable and perpetual shifts of leadership. These discussions reveal practical insights, thoughtful strategies, and stories of resilience to help you lead with clarity and calm.
Céline Williams: My guests today are Jon Grannis and Bob Chanka, executive members of Sollah Interactive, an award-winning producer of HR and compliance training. Welcome Jon and Bob. [00:01:00]
Jon Grannis: Hello. Thanks for having us.
Bob Chonka: Yeah, great to be here.
Céline Williams: Well, thank you for being here. I love it when I get to have two people on at once.
It's some of my favorite conversations, so. Um, being mindful of everything that we wanna talk about today, I wanna jump in and ask the question I always start with and whoever would like to go first. To answer can go first. The question is that the name of the podcast is Leading Through Crisis.
When you hear that phrase, what comes up for you or what does that mean to you?
Jon Grannis: Well, since, yeah, I'll go first, Bob. Uh, for me, it's about guiding. Organizations and individuals go through tough times, right? And so it's not just, uh, you know, we think holistically from the, in the workplace, we think of organization top down.
But in reality it's, it's any level within the organization. Personal problems, vendor problems, leadership problems. The idea is to get folks through those tough, challenging times, as fast or as slow as need be, and using the [00:02:00] tools that are available or even finding new tools.
That's what it means to me is really getting through that crisis, helping the entire holistic approach to leadership and to helping others.
Bob Chonka: Yeah. My first thought was managers, leaders, they are the agents inside of the organization and my first thought is, are they even equipped or do they have the ability to lead through crisis?
And in most cases, they don't. And you have to kind of see where we're at in time as far as a culture and our workforce. You go back 20 years ago, the managers, the leaders, were baby boomers, such as myself, with a style of hierarchy leading. Well, now, as we've progressed to where we are, many millennials are now in those positions.
The baby boomers are pretty much have exited out with some Gen Xers [00:03:00] and they have their own style, but the majority now is gonna be the millennials. They have a different style of leading, and they were brought up underneath a different style that they don't really relate to. So are they even equipped, even though they have a different style?
And the answer is no. Most are not equipped. But once you give them the understanding of their position, what they can do, and how they can impact the organization at all levels, that's how you can make a really tremendous difference. Early in our conversation, that's what Jon and I, our passion, I mean, extreme passion, is to provide something for the individual inside of that organization that's going to impact them because they're gonna have new knowledge and they're gonna be able to apply it immediately.
And when that happens, you have change. Great change.
Céline Williams: Yeah. I love the distinction of, so first off, both of you have such a [00:04:00] holistic view, and I know you use that language, Jon, I'm gonna repeat it, but it really is very clear in just your responses, how important that is. And also the, I love the focus on change training, whatever it is that is immediately applicable and can instill change because I think a lot of times it is.
Whether we've worked in organizations, or whether we have witnessed this happening. So there is a lot of training, coaching, mentoring, whatever, where it's so theoretical that it's not actually applicable. Where it's not, yeah. How do I, can I use this right now?
Can I make a difference with this? Mm-hmm. And every day, right? So, you know, I'm really curious how you, what's the difference that you see besides.
How you're delivering this or what you're seeing or the different [00:05:00] generations. Boomers, Gen Xers, millennials, they all learn really differently. They all acquire skills differently.
How they're gonna apply them is really different. How do you address all of that? 'Cause they are so different.
Bob Chonka: Absolutely. You know, I'll jump in first, Jon, because I know you got a lot to talk about how people learn, which Jon is really good at.
What we do is when we see a problem in the workforce. There's many times that we will partner with practitioners. They're subject matter experts, so they're in the trenches. They know what's actually happening. They're not gonna be, conceptual and theoretical ideas of this is what you should be doing.
They really know. How do you make that change? What does this person, what are the competent skills they need? That's what Jon and I do is when we see that there's a need we, when it's appropriate, we partner with that subject matter expert practitioner, and then we develop a training [00:06:00] content that's gonna be delivered in such a way it engages the learner.
'cause one of the key things is if you're not relevant, that you're dismissed and whatever you present to them, if it's not realistic, considering all the different generations we have. They're not gonna believe it, and therefore you wasted your time. And if they can't relate to it, it won't make a difference either way.
So what that's what we do is we try to be relevant, realistic, and relatable. And when you can do that, you engage the learner. So it's past concepts, theoretical. You've engaged them. Now you're able to deliver information, and when that happens, you're truly communicating. They take the message and they can go and apply it.
So Jon and I have this formula: E plus I equals C. Emotion plus information equals communication.
Céline Williams: Hmm. [00:07:00]
Jon Grannis: Spot on. And to kind of put it into kind of scientific terms, we utilize a learner forward approach or a model, right? So it's focused on the adult learner. And the, an adult learner in our world is somebody that's in the workplace, could be 14 years old, could be 82 years old.
But what we look at is we look at utilizing multiple modalities, right? So it might be, a game. It might be a short video situation or scenario. It might be a case study, it might be a discussion or a huddle card. We look at all the modalities that adult learners gravitate towards and can utilize to get that information.
To them so that we have that, you know, E plus I equal C. We also look at the dramatic edutainment. That's what Bob was talking about with the video videos that we use. We don't use narrators just talking at somebody. Adult learners don't want that. They want to put themselves into a dramatic role or [00:08:00] situation.
And what I mean by that is mentally. They connect with one or two or three of the characters within one of the video situations that we create. And then we use user defined content. And what that means is the users, and the learners are driving the content and how they want to learn, when they want to learn and topically what they want to learn.
Those are really important, and that's all That together forms the basis of being able to make that change happen, right? We do it at their level, at their time, at their need. And that's really, really important for learners and that's how. Situations change, right? Going from bad to good is because the learning and the connections and the communications and the conflict resolution are all being, utilized or changed because of the learning moments that are created.
Céline Williams: So I'm curious. With the different generations that are in the [00:09:00] workplace that you're, and I'm gonna caveat this with my own bias. I think a lot of the, the, my experience has been in the work that I've done, that a lot of the, perspectives we have on other generations are not really generational differences there, time of life differences.
So we are judging people for different times of life, not necessarily broad generalist generation. And I'm, I recognize those exist. But sometimes we miss the nuance between them and my experience. I'm gonna caveat my bias in this as I ask this question, which is, how are the different generations that are in the workplace together, whether it's boomers, gen X, millennials, gen Z, gen Alpha, whatever's, I don't even know what they are at this point, the names of them.
But how are they? Learn, they communicate differently for sure, because they were raised with different communication tools. But how is that affecting the communication, but also how they're learning? Because I imagine they gravitate towards different [00:10:00] elements of learning, different elements of what effective communication is from their perspective.
Bob Chonka: There's, we have a scene that we created exactly what you're talking about. There's, he's like a Gen X baby boomer character, and, and the other one is the millennial. So there's this time gap. Now they're both in the same department, both trying to accomplish a project that's in coding and programming.
And reporting. Well, well, the older generation. Has learned how to do the job this way. Well, now comes the younger generation that has technology under their belt to advance it, to make it more efficient. And you see the conflict happening because one's coming from this approach, the other one's coming from here.
And then in the scene we see it kind of building up. There's conflict. Mm-hmm. Because they're [00:11:00] misunderstanding each other. And then we do these little confessionals. So we hear what the older generation is thinking and he goes through a laundry list and then he says, and he's got a lot to learn.
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Bob Chonka: Then he goes to the younger person and he goes through his list and at the very end he says about the other person and he's got a lot to learn. So the two end up discovering that they both have wonderful ideas.
There's lots of, um. Experience, they can help with the project and there's lots of new ways they can help with the project. And so once they go through the model that's been developed to help them talk and communicate, they begin to really appreciate each other. I mean, just moments ago they're, they're like ready to go at it.
Yeah. And then they actually become really good coworkers. There's answers to all of those differences. We have to just simply [00:12:00] understand we're gonna come from a different approach, different perspectives, and the more open-minded, the more we're curious to ask questions about the other, that's when all the wonderful good things can start coming out.
And then the conflict is resolved in a positive way. And it's everlasting with that relationship because when they work through those things, the conflict and it turns out positive. It's an amazing thing as humans that when we go through a conflict and we resolve it, we actually become closer and we have more trust for each other.
And that just really spells out a strong, healthy relationship in the
workplace.
Jon Grannis: Well, and it's important what Bob just said, conflict isn't bad, right? Tension isn't bad.
Céline Williams: Amen.
Jon Grannis: It's when you don't resolve it, that's when it becomes an issue, A workplace issue, a personal issue, things like that. But out of conflict, [00:13:00] out of tension oftentimes comes innovation.
Mm-hmm. And that's a lot of the things that we talk about in our programs is that, hey, we're different people. We might be different, generational. We might be different from an education standpoint, we might be a different race, we might be a different religion. But we can resolve key issues when we take a moment sometimes to step back and work on communication skills and get through, or, or, or, you know, work through the conflict so that on the other side we're all better for it.
And that's really an important component. You're never gonna get rid of conflict. Crises are gonna happen regardless of the best intended, practices within an organization. It's how you respond to those and how you build on communication skills and how you, work through tensions to get to the other side and get to the innovations.
And that's, what Bob was, that was a lot of what Bob was saying, that tension wasn't necessarily [00:14:00] bad. It could have been bad, but by working through it. Coming out on the other side. In this particular program, these two coworkers became friends, right. And they worked together to solve a lot of heady issues that were impacting the organization.
Céline Williams: It's, I cannot. Tell you how much I agree with repositioning. The idea that all conflict is bad, and I talk a lot about healthy tension and healthy conflict, that we actually need conflict to grow. We need tension. People really don't like the word conflict, but we need tension to grow, whether it's individually as a team, as an organization, because that in the differences is where the innovation is.
It's where the possibility of change is. It's all of those things. We are so avoidant of it in general and I think, age we get less avoidant as we get older oftentimes. 'cause we're like, doesn't serve us to keep avoiding these things. And I'm sure generational [00:15:00] communication styles affect this as well.
That we are so naturally as a society in North America, avoidant of conflict, that it's really hard to see any tension as healthy, even though it is, and it should be addressed and stepped into, not stepped out of
Bob Chonka: that's a really great point that you're bringing up, Celine, and when you look at organizations.
You've got all these people, different generations and personalities. 'cause you got two personality types that are gonna be very direct in dealing with conflict. And you're gonna have two other types of personalities that want to avoid it at all costs. And now what happened is the ones that are direct about it, they're avoiding it because they're afraid of how they're gonna be seen and perceived.
And then the other two personalities, they're still stuck because they don't wanna deal with it. Mm-hmm. But when. An organization can build a culture where it's encouraged that, [00:16:00] you know what, Hey, conflict is gonna rise. We're, there's no way we're all gonna see things the same way. But if it's encouraged that you can work through it and you equip them, that's the key thing.
If you equip them how to deal with conflict in a positive way, then it becomes the standard. Hey. Okay. Alright. Celine, you and I are disagreeing on something. Help me understand what it is about my ideas that you think are gonna hinder us and then you'll do the same thing. 'cause that'll be how it goes.
That becomes the status quo.
Céline Williams: Yeah.
Jon Grannis: Yes. There's something else that's really happening in the workplace right now, and it's partially generational, but it's a concept called Fobo. I don't know if you've heard of Fear of Becoming Obsolete, okay? This is typically hitting, a little bit towards the older generations because they're really concerned, not just of technology, because they're getting used to it.
But it's AI and things like that. The things that are out of their [00:17:00] control, but they hear in the news, it's coming, it's taking over my job. This happens across the board, not only in, boomers and X-ers, but even millennials now are saying, wait a minute.
Céline Williams: Oh
Jon Grannis: You know, there's something out there that can do what I'm doing. Oh, great. You know, what am I gonna do better,
Céline Williams: faster, cheaper?
Jon Grannis: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Fobo is something that's really, intriguing us, as an organization that helps, individuals and corporations, get better at what they're doing through, empowering their work.
And it is one thing we were always asked about we utilize AI in all kinds of different ways. It's optimized, some of the menial tasks that our systems were doing, that our people were doing and things like that. But to put your head in the sand and say, oh, this is gonna go away.
This is just a fad. It's the last thing that anybody, should be doing, right? And so what we tell a lot of, folks that, email us or call us or on different calls that we're on is. AI is not going away, right? AI is getting smarter, better, and [00:18:00] faster every single second. I used to say week or day, but it's every single second.
What we need to do now as employees is understand it. Right. We don't need to be afraid of it, but we have to understand it, know the limitations, and know how we can utilize it in our daily, tasks or our job description, how we can utilize it. Go to our manager and say, Hey, I think, you know, you've been hearing a lot about this.
We can use AI or generative AI to help us with this, you know, and so it's really important to understand. Some of these things that are happening from a technology standpoint, from, a personal or personnel standpoint, and not be afraid, but to be inquisitive and start that process because those that aren't are gonna be the ones that are gonna find themselves without a job.
Right.
Bob Chonka: Yeah. And there's another, I'll add just a little bit more, flip the coin over in regards to AI, the fear of being obsolete. Well, how do [00:19:00] you resolve not being obsolete? Well, you need to be relevant. If you can stay relevant at, as far as at the human level, the skills that humans can do that AI can't do.
AI can't be creative. It can't make ethical decisions. All AI can do at this point is mimic human behavior, but it can't be human at many different levels. It can deal with an employee that keeps showing up 15 minutes late for work that doesn't know how to do that you do. So if it was me and I'm in a, wherever I'm at in an organization and I see AI coming in, as Jon said, seek to understand it, be able to utilize it.
I would be begging, I would say I want more training and communication skills, managing skills, everything I can do to keep me relevant in today's workforce. And many [00:20:00] organizations offer lots of training. And if they don't, I would be knocking on the door saying, I'd like to advance in these types of skills.
Céline Williams: Well. It's really, it's interesting when you say that the thing that pops into mind immediately is the, there are a lot of people in organizations, I mean, caveat, there's a lot of people in the world, whether they're in an organization or not, who really get, they, they hoard knowledge. So the thing that they own at work, the thing that they do at work, they hoard that, that's theirs.
They're not going to. Give it up. They're not gonna share it, they're not training anyone else to do it. After there's, there's a, it's, I often think of it as like an, an kind of old school approach to the knowledge is that the knowledge skill is moving so slowly that I can own this, and then no one is ever going to fire me because this is mine.
Right. I'm wrapping my arms around it. You can't see that. And, that [00:21:00] mindset still exists, even though everything has changed around it. And we still see people who are like mine. I'm not gonna, you know, I am relevant forever with this.
And I'm curious how, I mean, I assume they're definitely feeling fobo, more because of that mindset, but how do you, how do you address those people who are. Feeling the fobo, but also really doubling down on, I am not going to give up the things that are mine.
Bob Chonka: You're really talking about self preservation.
Céline Williams: Yeah.
Bob Chonka: That's really what they're trying to do. And that actually is the problem because it's going to be a negative impact. You're not gonna get what you want. You're focusing on what you don't want.
Céline Williams: Mm-hmm.
Bob Chonka: And 'cause you don't wanna be obsolete, so therefore you start doing a self-preservation.
Versus when you see, especially, let's take, managers, [00:22:00] you know, how, if they hold onto that information, how are those that report to them? How are they gonna feel about their manager who's holding back? They know it. The relationship, there's no trust. It breaks down, not good. Versus another manager that has all this knowledge and shares it.
Because this manager understands that the more I build up those to the abilities that they have, the greater the organization is gonna thrive. The greater you'll thrive because you will feel so much better about yourself helping others. And so if they can see examples of how to be a positive manager in very difficult, fast changing times, reinforce positivity with all everyone, and you'll break away from that self preservation and you'll see there's a greater way to do things.
Jon Grannis: Well, yeah. And I think what Bob's saying is that about the [00:23:00] managers who, help their team, they're offering a level of psychological safety. Right? Some comfort, that they'll be able to say, come to this manager and say, listen, I'm nervous about this thing called ai. Is it gonna take my job?
What can I do? To, make myself, better, right? How can I, do things to help the organization and also help myself? There's no shame in wanting to help yourself, especially as you're communicating with a coach or a mentor, a manager, or what have you.
Those are the kind of people that I want to come to me and say, Hey, listen, this is what I hear. I'm hearing this out, you know, in the news. What can I do? To make sure that this team is going to keep going, that I can provide everything that the organization needs and, I can be, a help, not a hindrance, because it's those who are gonna be, the hindrances are gonna be the first one that are gone.
I hate to say it that way, but if you're not moving in a direction, the organization needs to move. Then you're going to [00:24:00] find yourself looking for, another organization to work for. And that's just the reality of what, happened generationally when, you know, when, um, Ford set up the assembly line, right?
Everybody thought, oh my gosh, this is gonna take away so many jobs because they can do it faster. They use less people. Well, you know what? They still, they need more people creating more parts so that the faster production can take place. Same with robotics. All of a sudden you create mechanical engineers.
That are working on these robots that go down all the time because they're constantly working repetitive jobs. So, mechanical engineers came into huge boom in the nineties and eighties, nineties, and even now. So there's that fear or that hindrance that you're putting up or blocking is actually probably hurting you more than AI coming in and doing your job a little bit faster or, smarter.
Right.
Bob Chonka: And it's really interesting, Celine, you bring that up about the self preservation person. Um, as Jon was talking about, they won't practice psychological safety. And when they're [00:25:00] in that mode of self preservation. They're gonna be critical. They're gonna blame others because they're trying to be not nothing. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm doing my job. And we had this one situation where that organization has been created and this person was supposed to get an order out and they accidentally deleted the email and then caught it later and got the shipment out, but the customer was upset.
So the manager comes to find out and says, you know, what happened to this order? And the young person is going, well, you know, the shipment went out, they got their product right and she's trying to probe. And then she finally provides that psychological safety for him to finally confess and say, I accidentally delete the email.
And I didn't catch it until Monday. And she was like, that's okay. Because we all [00:26:00] make mistakes. And he was, oh wow. All of that heavy burden was just lifted. So it was, it turns out to a back to conflict, back to, you know, tension and it turns out into a wonderful positive thing.
Céline Williams: Yeah. There's a lot to be said for organizations that can create cultures where,
tension is healthy and is allowed and is the norm. And also everyone makes mistakes. You're not going to be, punished, fired, whatever. Obviously there are exceptions where certain things are unacceptable mistakes, right? We're not, you know, there are extremes where it's not a mistake.
If you're sexually harassing someone, maybe you don't work that work, right? There's extreme, so I'm gonna acknowledge that in what I'm saying. But everyday mistakes, those things that happen in the course of being a human, they're discussed and learned from. They're not immediately [00:27:00] punished and you're not shamed for it.
Bob Chonka: Right? That's an amazing thing that you know it's okay to make mistakes. 'cause you think about it, every person that got up this morning, didn't get up and go. Gee, I wanna make about at least 10 to 12 mistakes today. No, they wake up and they're, everybody goes, I want to do the best I can.
Céline Williams: Yep.
Bob Chonka: Yeah.
Jon Grannis: Well,
Bob Chonka: and also,
Jon Grannis: well, yeah, I mean, you gotta think about it also. You know, that level of forgiveness of those mistakes saves the organization tons of money, because guess what it takes. Thousands and thou, I think the last stat was $27,000 to replace an employee. So it's better, it's more efficient.
It's cost savings to actually work through a mistake than to say, oh, you're gone. You know. Now granted, Celine, you like there's some things that are not permissible. Yes, but every day, 99.9% of issues that happen in the workplace [00:28:00] can be resolved and resolved correctly and resolved to a win-win.
Céline Williams: Yep.
Jon Grannis: And that's important to remember.
Céline Williams: Yep. And
Jon Grannis: we
Bob Chonka: learn the best
Jon Grannis: through our
Bob Chonka: mistakes. Yep.
Céline Williams: Isn't that always the thing we celebrate and we talk about wins all the time, when really we should also be celebrating and talking about the mistakes. 'cause that's where all the lessons, we don't get to the wins without all those mistakes.
Bob Chonka: Yep.
Céline Williams: before we wrap up, is there anything that we didn't get to that you want to make sure to mention and or. Something that you want to emphasize at the end of this and or it's also okay to just say, I'm good and complete and I don't need to say anything else.
Jon Grannis: You've got the wrong two people in your podcast. The one thing I wanna say, you're like,
Céline Williams: there are so many things we need to get to
Jon Grannis: one of the things that I really want to make sure that comes out is that, you know, we've talked about some heady things, right?
But you need to get so two solutions and, and you know, we talked about, the learner forward approach and things like that. [00:29:00] Well, another key trend that we've seen for the last, we are probably ahead of it, maybe 10 years ago. And that is how folks want to learn. Now, it's changed a lot, right?
So learning used to be, Hey, let's sit in a classroom. Let's discuss for four hours or six hours, or eight hours a topic. And that's just not relevant anymore. People, especially the YouTube, and the Instagram generation, and that includes all of us, right? Because we all are on Facebook, we're all used to have vines.
We all, you know, all the social media. It's, Hey, I need something in a minute or two or less. And so it's really important for organizations to know and understand that microlearning is key to getting people engaged, keeping them focused, and teaching them a learning moment. Okay? And so for me, that's really an important part of what I do when I talk to learners and I talk to tons of learners throughout the year to understand how the learning, because that's how [00:30:00] we grow as an organization, if we understand.
Our space and our people and our customers. And not just the people we're buying, but the people who are actually utilizing the training. And so I had a really, really good meeting, with the president of the university a couple weeks back. And we talked about, being work ready. Right.
So the graduates coming through and, this person was really concerned about the students getting into the workforce and not having the soft skills to keep a job. In fact, Forbes Magazine last month published an article that said. 80% of managers, feel like firing in the millennials that are coming, or the Gen C folks that are coming into the workforce right now.
'cause they don't have common skills. They don't have the soft skills, the communication, because they're, a lot of times they're, they're slapped here, the face to their phone. And one of the things I talked about with the president was, Hey, we need to come to them, right? We need to come to their learning level and [00:31:00] give them nuggets of information that are gonna help and equip them to be work ready.
And so we're rolling out a program with them as a pilot, for all their graduates to go through, seven to eight courses on things like time management. Emotional, intelligence, but at a level that it's really fun, easy and quick. So these are all five to seven minute, quick hit modules on key and important conflict.
Resolution was another one, right? Just simple ways to build up some quick skills so that when they get into the job. They at least are equipped to be able to handle some of the first day stuff, is what I call it. And so that's something that I wanted to make sure that we kind of just hit at a high level.
This could be a whole other session, right? A whole other podcast talking about microlearning and the ways that we need to come to the level of the learner. And so that's really important to know and understand as an organization, that you need to meet your people where they feel [00:32:00] comfortable.
Bob Chonka: Yeah. I'll finish, my last comment, for those that are listening to this and you're an employee of some sort of organization, you're part of something, ask yourself, do you want to be a weak employee or do you wanna be a strong employee? A weak employee is, is going to stay in the status quo.
They're gonna just try to survive. They're gonna self preserve. A strong employee is gonna grow. And how do you grow knowledge? Knowledge is power. That's how you become a strong employee because you will develop skills. They're gonna be valuable and relevant.
Céline Williams: Yeah,
Bob Chonka: I would encourage, learn, and make mistakes along the way, which is actually a good thing.
Céline Williams: We love mistakes. So thank you, Bob and Jon for being guests today. This is a super interesting conversation. I appreciate your humor and all of your wisdom that you shared with us. For anyone who is listening or [00:33:00] watching, all the links will be in the show notes and you can.
Find out more about Bob and Jon's organization. Sollah at S-O-L-L-A H.com. Sollah.com. And is there a way that they can connect with you if they're interested in connecting with either of you?
Jon Grannis: You can hit me up on social. We're on all the social platforms. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. I just type in S-O-L-L-A-H and you'll find us
Céline Williams: Perfect
Jon Grannis: chat box.
Bob Chonka: Yeah,
Céline Williams: Thank you both for taking the time to chat with me today.
Bob Chonka: Yeah. You've been a great host, Soline. I've really enjoyed this. Thank you. I have too.
Jon Grannis: Thank you so much.
Judith: You’ve been listening to Leading Through Crisis, hosted by Céline Williams and brought to you by reVisionary. To learn more, visit leadingthroughcrisis.ca. Connect with Céline on LinkedIn, and explore the show notes for resources and next steps. Until next time, keep leading with courage and clarity.